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June Banger Meet - All new in '09

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Wildfire, Jun 1, 2009.

  1. Wildfire
    Joined: Apr 23, 2006
    Posts: 827

    Wildfire
    Member

    Here's mine, just got her running last weekend. I will drive this car on or before June 6 - 3 years to the date that I got her home.

    I do have two headbolts that are weeping water, one along the center by 3 & 4 and the other is on the water neck - your advice is appreciated.

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
  2. 88daryl88
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Posts: 184

    88daryl88
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Tears of Joy, perhaps?

    Congrats Wildfire, Well done.[​IMG]
     
  3. flexiheep
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 10

    flexiheep
    Member

    Can't say I have a ton going on in the Banger world, my 30 just became my only backup car as I sold my OT Jeep. Still putting together a plan for building it, until then it remains stock motored. Here is a picture of her taking my wife to the hospital when my youngest was born last year. Nothing like 6V headlights at 4:30 AM.

    [​IMG]

    Drivetrain is in good shape, but all the bushings etc that move on the chassis are worn out, need to make a list and start on that soon.

    I must be getting older, I am going to have a solid chassis before I add more power (May even make 60hp some day)....:D
     
  4. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    Right ON wildfire! Great work!
     
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  5. Mines getting closer, got the lights hung and wired, not much left to do at all.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Wildfire
    Joined: Apr 23, 2006
    Posts: 827

    Wildfire
    Member

    I gotta hand it to Chris - that's the fastest banger build yet!

    Don't forget to help me with my weeping head bolts!
     
  7. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,909

    The37Kid
    Member

    Nice roadster Chris! Just noticed the tail light bracket holes, it's a 1928.
     
  8. so purty, oh so purty, so purty and purty and purty.
     
  9. A-Wall
    Joined: Aug 6, 2008
    Posts: 488

    A-Wall
    Member

    i have a weeping headbolt too! help this man!
     
  10. A-Wall
    Joined: Aug 6, 2008
    Posts: 488

    A-Wall
    Member

    also just bored sitting here thinking about the carb i just bought, what was the cfm of a stock zenith carb?

    i just picked up a 94 that needs a rebuild, on a pretty much stock motor what size jets would you run? since i haven't pulled the carb apart yet are the stock 94 jets marked for size?

    got the carb for $20, had a choice between a newer one, that had a vent on the front of it, and mine which i was told was from the 40's.
     
  11. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,197

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    After a month of searching, a total of 10 hours driving, Outa the old guys barn, fired right up drove it on the trailer, got it home drove the kids around the block and now she won't start ( bad battery or gen will investigate in morning) but I am still tickled pink, just need to make her run again well enough to to drive the wheels off of her, she is in good hands now... Am I a fool to put a drop I-beam on it and maintain the mech. brakes??? They seem to be properly adjusted at the moment.. I started another thread, but seem to be finding all my answers here pretty quick..So I will post some here. What would be the smartest money spent on the banger. it runs strong (it seems) I just wanna make it a bit more reliable keeping 6 volt is fine if I can make it work for me, or would it be better to switch to 12v.. The car needs wired its temp. for now. I have a new correct wiring harness in the bag but have questions first...It seemed to start fairly easy with a good charge Would it be stupid to change the ignition, I.E dist,coil and such, and the carb and intake. Some have chimed in on my other post and I am listening to all sides.. Just asking so those who have offered advice and input please don't think I am not listening.. I AM WITH OPEN EYES AND EARS.. So what after all this blabber what would be the best bang for the buck on making it a more reliable user friendly vehicle ( the wife drives the cars as much as I do so keep that in mind.) Thanks in advance Ryan
     
  12. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    First of all, That is a cherry coupe! Good score!!

    You can run either 6V or 12V. It's up to you. Probably ran the battery dry and that is why it won't start. 6V battery cars need thicker battery cables, or in gauge, go down in number. May have modern 12V battery cables from Autozone on it which doesn't help.

    1st thing to learn on a Model A is how to do the timing!!!!!! I'm always tweaking mine in a couple minutes and it runs strong. Print the following page, laminate it, and put it under your seat for emergencies. SERIOUSLY. I did!
    http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

    Memorize it and get good at it. Even if you change the points to electronic ignition, you need to know by heart how to find top dead center with the pin in the timing cover, and where the rotor needs to be on the distrib.

    From my personal experience, the most omph for the buck I saw was putting a higher compression head and more carburetion on the car to help it breathe. A lot of Model A club guys put the modern webber carbs on them for hassle free driving. If you like to tinker with jets, sync, carb sizes, etc, you can go the more traditional route of putting stromberg down draft carbs on her.

    If you're not worried about burnouts, probably a better bang for the buck would be a quicker rear end gear set up, like a ring and pinion, or putting an overdrive unit somewhere in the drive line. They have various options for this. This will help you cruise along the highway with more comfort. I have a faster engine, but no overdrive. I drove another guys car with an overdrive and stock engine, and I'd say that the hopped up engine was more fun to drive than taking 3 minutes to get up to speed!

    Most people say you can't drop a stock model a axle with mechanical brakes, but I did it on my coupe. A few others out there have done it, including some old timers (FLYERS) You just have to raise up the brake actuators a lot by using weld on tabs, or fabricate something. Fidgiter made me some cool little tabs. I like the stance much more, but when I hit bumps while braking, I feel the peddle move around with the road. The axle is doing different things when it's lowered, so build it strong.

    Hope that answered some of your questions. I understand your excitement. I would advise getting to know the car a little while in it's stock form, and then when various parts of the STOCK car start to lack a little in your eyes, start upgrading. you'll know what bothers you after driving it for a while. I would say a big mistake would be to tear into it immediately without getting to really love the car for what it started out as. You'll really appreciate the modifications more if you intimately know where it came from.
     
  13. Wildfire
    Joined: Apr 23, 2006
    Posts: 827

    Wildfire
    Member

    Hope that answered some of your questions. I understand your excitement. I would advise getting to know the car a little while in it's stock form, and then when various parts of the STOCK car start to lack a little in your eyes, start upgrading. you'll know what bothers you after driving it for a while. I would say a big mistake would be to tear into it immediately without getting to really love the car for what it started out as. You'll really appreciate the modifications more if you intimately know where it came from.

    Elrod is right on, I know because I tore into mine right away and its just now back on the road 3 years later. If you don't want to mess with timing, you can get an FS ignition that drops right into the stock distributor - electronic ignition with the stock look.
     
  14. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,197

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Thanks guys for all the info. I plan on wrenching with it tonight.... Wildfiire what do you mean by FS ignition are you talking about installing a modern style points condensor and plate? If so I have been eyeballing that another guy here in KY mentioned he did it and was worth the time and money..



    QUOTE:Most people say you can't drop a stock model a axle with mechanical brakes, but I did it on my coupe. A few others out there have done it, including some old timers (FLYERS) You just have to raise up the brake actuators a lot by using weld on tabs, or fabricate something. Fidgiter made me some cool little tabs. I like the stance much more, but when I hit bumps while braking, I feel the peddle move around with the road. The axle is doing different things when it's lowered, so build it strong.


    What doe these tabs look like you are refering to? I do believe I have an idea on such a mod, but could always use a visual.... Ryan
     
  15. kenagain
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 820

    kenagain
    Member
    from so cal

    I have a 30 sedan bought it 20 years ago. I put all new stuff in distributer went thru the timing, and it still starts n runs just like new. Go thru the dizzy check the carb and leave it 6 volts. should run again if it went once on the trailer. You do need a good battery n charging system also. Replacing the wiring harness is about a 2 hour job n pretty straight foreward with a diagram. All this info can be found in the search on this board
    hope this helps
    Ken
     
  16. Will Kimble
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 400

    Will Kimble
    Member

    Hey Ryan,

    Are you in Northern KY? Seems like I saw your Chevy at the Hoffmann fish fry?

    Congrats, your coupe is beautiful. My Dad has its twin - black '30 with whitewalls on straw colored '35 wires. Stop by sometime and I will show you what I have done to mine - modern distributor, 12V, single 97, juice brakes, '39 gearbox, and so on. Might help you decide what you want to do with yours?

    Anyway, if it were mine I would probably keep it 6V, put reverse eye springs front and rear, leave the mechanical brakes alone, keep banging the A gearbox, and add a B cam, lightened flywheel, modern distributor and single 97... But there are a lot of ways to approach this.

    Best of luck,
    Will Kimble
    www.kimblemandolins.com
     
  17. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    I would do away with points all together and go with a Pertronix conversion kit.

    FS Ignitions makes this conversion kit, and it's an easy process to remove your upper and lower plates in your distributor, and drop this upper plate in that has the pertronix ignitor already mounted to it. Read about it here:
    http://www.fsignitions.com/FSI_CONVERSION_KITS.html

    Here is the link to how I dropped my coupe. (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=332870&showall=1)
    A few key items are to get an original dropped axle that is also stretched to retain the same width as an undropped axle from Joe's Speed Shop in Ponoca Oklahoma. (http://www.joesspeedshop.com/joesproducts.htm) Scroll down about a 3rd of the way and it's axle "A" in the picture.

    Here are a few pictures of my coupe.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. hotrodtom
    Joined: Apr 14, 2005
    Posts: 231

    hotrodtom
    Member

    Don't forget to help me with my weeping head bolts![/QUOTE]

    OK, here goes...
    BTW, that's a fine looking RPU there. And the mill ain't half bad either, and sounds great. What is that cylinder head?
    What we mostly do on the water neck is to surface off the bottom of the water neck as flat as possible and use no gasket. A fine film of RTV gasket maker on both surfaces, torque it carefully in stages, let it set up before starting, then torque it again after running 30 min and again a day or so later.
    If you use the water outlet gasket in the gasket sets you are pretty much guaranteed to break off the ears of the water neck. Don't ask me how I know that. [​IMG] Old timers used to say to put paper matchsticks alongside the water outlet studs for a little extra support, but the RTV silicone is a much better fix.
    Fearless
     
  19. Thanks! It's really a 29 with the outside door handles...those three tailight holes were made up to early 29.
     
  20. Some times a weeping head nut will stop of it's own accord. If not a little "stop leak" will help. In the "day" we used black pepper. No matter what you used the leak will persist until crud in the water or your stop leak gets to the leak. You could take the head nut off and try a little silicone under the washer

    When I first ran my current Winfield flat head it seeped water and after a while it quit leaving a rust stained head nut and washer but now I have some coolant in it and it seems to have fixed itself. Some times problems like this are like a Boil,if you don't pick at it it will get well by itself. ( old time mechanic expression)

    Actually, my advice is "Just throw your head back and Drive"

    On the hard starting coupe,I ran a piece of 1/0 welding cable from the positive post to the transmission. If you are using the stock ground cable in the original position you are depending on all those old riveted rusty joints to pass the current. I'm currently starting an engine with 8.5 to 1 with a 18 lb. Al flywheel with 6 volts. A good investment is an
    electronic voltage regulator.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  21. Wildfire
    Joined: Apr 23, 2006
    Posts: 827

    Wildfire
    Member

    Awesome advice the weeping issue. I see my error - I torqued before it set up on the water neck. The other one, who knows. I will keep an eye on the plugs to make sure its not leaking into the cylinder.

    The head is a new Winfield. My engine builder milled cylinder reliefs into it a bit to lower the compression to around 6:1, it was a flat surface. Since that video, I got it timed in and am now working on carb adjustments. Fun stuff!
     
  22. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,197

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    So is it possible to drop a 31 with the stock spindles and everything or do I have to find the 32 stuff? I thought they where the same ... Thanks' for the heads up on the axle thats the hot ticket.. I am gonna call as soon as i get a free moment.... Ryan
     
  23. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,197

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Also I ran an 8 volt battery in my chev to give it more umph on starting, would this be a stupid thing to do? Advantage dis-advantage,I am just full of questions guys please bare with me.. I am new to the banger motor and don't want to make costly mistakes. I am gonna try to get her running (again) tonight and then make notes of my pros and cons with the engine/charging system.. Don't get me wrong it runs good just hard starting...
     
  24. Do you have spark? do you have fuel? If it cranks over and has spark, compression and fuel, it'll fire. Remeber to choke it- even when warm you usually have to choke it. While cranking, pull the choke rod out and then let go, should fire. Also make sure your spark advance lever is all the way up. Model A's usually have no problem firing up in any condition, so if yours is hard starting, your either have a problem somewere or your missing a step in your start up proccess.

    If it is cranking really slow, your battery probably does not have enough juice to spark the points.
     
  25. 8 volt batteries are some times hard on light bulbs. THere is a company that makes electronic regulators for the model "A" generator that appear to be stock and can be had for 6,8,and 12 volt. But in most hard starting, if everything else is right, the problem is the ground. If the ground connection is to the frame you will lose voltage to the ignition as the starter will drag the system down. Turn the head lights on and notice how much they dim as you crank the engine with the starter. Of course this is all MY opinion. Sometimes the problem is the starter itself. Too much static advance will cause the engine to crank slowly but is easy to detect as it has a tendency to kick back.
     
  26. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,557

    Elrod
    Member

    I personally think you need to find the 32 stuff. When you just drop the stock axle, the brake actuators get farther away from the spring perches, so you need the taller 32 perches.

    If I remember correctly, the stock A spindles and their arms interfered with the axle so I put 32 spindles on and moved the tie rod from the top of the arms to the bottom. The A spindles might work on your car though. You can give it a shot.
     
  27. lil32b
    Joined: Aug 3, 2006
    Posts: 23

    lil32b
    Member
    from Belgium

    Hi all overseas(channel) bangers, a couple years ago at the Essex swapmeet i bought a homemade inlet from a certain guy, this fine piece of work runs great on my diamond B engine with a french made Stromberg 22.2 aka 81.
    Now bitten by the 4bangervirus, i now want to know who i bought it from or who made it, so take a good look at the photos and let's hear from you....

    He must be a banger guy !!! :D


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Thanks,
    Filip.
     
  28. Wildfire
    Joined: Apr 23, 2006
    Posts: 827

    Wildfire
    Member

    That intake looks just fine to me. Several of the cars on here have fabricated intakes. I saw one on a bonneville racer that used a full 180 degree tube with Harley motorcycle carbs on it.
     
  29. lrs30
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,197

    lrs30
    Member
    from Kentucky

    OK OK OK IT's ALIVE... What I did was start with the POS. GROUND, cleaned it up still no good, check the 8 volt battery , JUNK, went back to the 6 volt it was good still nothing, went to my welder cut a 1 1/2 section of ground cable , out to my work van popped on 2 new ends and VIOLA she fired right up (BAD NEG CABLE TO STARTER).. So the next thing I did was call the insurance company, and then took her for a little cuise other than the windows rattling and the brakes needing adjusting she ran good for what she is.. Thank's for all the good advice, I think I am gonna keep the 6 volt set-up and order me an IFS ignition in the morning. I have had great luck with pertronics products in the past so once I read that i was sold.. Plus the wife ordered me the two lite pig-tails and bulds for the headlights today, gotta love a lady that knows how to read a parts catalog, and knows what she wants. I think I will keep her a bit longer......And the wife too..
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  30. dudley32
    Joined: Jan 2, 2008
    Posts: 1,941

    dudley32
    Member

    Elrod...o.k.....so maybe I missed something...how'd you drop the rear...?
     

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