Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects Jumping in the deep end

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by trevorsworth, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't throw any brake parts away. Even if everything is rusty, most will be reusable after blasting in your new cabinet. You'll probably replace the shoes, but if you can find a place to reline your current shoes, even better. You will replace the springs. But if the cylinders can be blasted clean, honed to clean up without pits, then for sure just buy a cup and bellows kit. The result will be much better than the screwy new castings that the current cylinders have.
     
    flatford39 and trevorsworth like this.
  2. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    One of the shoes on the driver side was froze to the inside of the brake drum and bent when the drum was removed. Everything on that side seems to still be functional otherwise. I am hoping I can skirt by with just blasting everything, giving it the usual service, replacing the shoes and re-assembling. I am worried about the other side though. Since it had an ant colony in it they must have packed it with dirt and that means moisture.
     
  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Beware the repro shoes. I bought some from a usually good vendor and the holes were in the wrong spot. Just a little, but enough to make adjusting them very hard to do. Would be a nightmare for somebody who's never worked on old Ford brakes before.

    Same issues with the new cylinders. They are close, but the holes are slightly misplaced which causes the fluid to leak past the inner cups if you don't pre-adjust the shoes out before adding the fluid.
     
    flatford39 and trevorsworth like this.
  4. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    While I piddle away trying to get the stuck brake drum off, here's a thought: I have an open drive transmission and a torque tube rear end.

    As the truck will be sitting high enough for the rear end to be on display, I am more married to the banjo than the dump truck trans.

    I understand my toploader is not really a "hot rod transmission"... but I know that actual vintage hot rods often ran them because they were cheap and comparatively easy to rebuild. I also know that I am not demanding much power out of my flathead... so it seems like it will suit my purposes fine, at least until I get the hankering, and the budget, for more than 100 horses.

    No matter what, one or the other will have to go before the truck can move down the road, and I am going to have to cut down both the torque tube and the drive shaft no matter what... so should I replace the transmission with an earlier closed drive unit, or convert the rear end to open drive? I would think the '49 dump truck transmission would be perhaps more tolerant of being flogged than an earlier transmission, that is assuming it hasn't already been flogged to death.
     
    goldmountain likes this.
  5. This is where a first time builder goes, Huuu! Now what? I think your going to find the Dump Truck gear box is the trade off item. I understand wanting the Banjo sticking out from behind, I'd stay with that and find a 49/50 Merc. block to trans bellhousing and a pre 49 3 speed Gearbox. Now your closed drive and a much better Trans. You don't need a 39 style gearbox. A 41-48 column shift is fine, just use a Hurst style shifter on it.
     
    trevorsworth likes this.
  6. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,746

    flatford39
    Member

    Also that torque tube is designed to assist the suspension and tie everything in. I bought a 46 48 passenger car trans at a swap for $35.00. When I took it apart it was clear that it was just rebuilt. I had a 37 39 model 78 case so Installed the 46 48 gears with the better synchros in it. You can find empty 78 cases for around $70 to $100.00. Lose that truck trans as you are only going to be replacing it later.
     
  7. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 366

    sdroadster
    Member

    Remember, all old Ford transmissions were non syncro to 1st gear. If you want you girlfriend or grandson to drive the car, you are asking for a chipped tooth in 1st gear.
     
    trevorsworth likes this.
  8. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Much appreciated guys. I'll keep my eyes peeled for another unit.
     
    flatford39 likes this.
  9. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are the cylinders themselves rebuildable or must they be replaced as complete units? And is that economical? I found "repair kits" that include the rubber but not the pieces I need.

    When the brake shoe bent (due to being seized to the drum) it bent the cup that holds the brake shoe, which in turn broke what I guess is the piston inside the cylinder.
     
  10. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,187

    RMONTY
    Member

    I dont know about the early Ford stuff, but every wheel cylinder kit I ever used had 2 new rubber boots, 2 pistons (or cups), and a new spring. Pick up a wheel cylinder hone, break out the drill and smooth the inside of the cylinder out, and reassemble with brake fluid as a lubricant. Dont rebuild until the last step before priming the system and bleeding the brakes. That's my method anyway....right or wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020
  11. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Got to sit in a 31 A pickup for the first time. Perfect size for me. I like it.

    I got front perch pins and a rear spring, so now all I need is a spring spreader and the damn kingpins out of the 37 axle and I can finally start getting my chassis put together.

    e: and the rear spring perches of course.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
    rjgideon, RMONTY and J.Ukrop like this.
  12. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Don't guess anyone nearby has a rear spring spreader I can borrow?

    I am going to order the weld-on rear spring perches from Speedway as I can't find the bolt-ons.

    My hillbilly brain says I should attach the perches to the rear spring, install the spring on the frame, use the spring spreader to stretch the spring to the normal width it would be when the car is sitting on the ground, then locate the axle under the spring and adjust back and forth until I get the perches perfectly centered side to side, then measure/mark that, disassemble & weld. Tell me how bad of an idea that is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  13. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 366

    sdroadster
    Member

    There are seals inside your rear axle, in the location you are going to weld. That's why we use the bolt on style. I bought some from a supplier on the HAMB but I can't remember his name. It's early and I'm old.... I'm sure someone else will remember.
     
  14. I can say I would NEVER try mounting the hangers in this method. The spring mounts should be mounted same center to center width as the spring mounts are on a stock rear axle for your spring Do that with a simple tape measure and weld them in place then hang the spring. You don't need a spring spreader. Take the spring apart using a pair of C Clamps and a long enough length of all thread to unload the spring leaves. Clean each leaf as needed, Mount just the main leaf as needed then stack the leaves back on the all thread and pull it back together and install the C Clamps. Remove the all thread and install a new center bolt. Go on about building the chassis. Yes there are Axle seals inside the housing. They are a Bitch to replace! You can get new seals that fit the I.D. of the housing just fine but I have found most are not a correct fit to the Axle itself.
     
    rusty valley likes this.
  15. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Isn’t the name of the perch company something like Yankee?
     
  16. Brian Lundgren
    Joined: Jul 16, 2016
    Posts: 25

    Brian Lundgren
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  17. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The '40 rear end is appreciably wider than the A, isn't it? Wouldn't this kit put the spring perches much further apart?
     
  18. If your using a Model A rear spring you want the center to center bushing hole of the Weld on brackets to be the same distance apart as the stock Model A spring hangers are.
     
  19. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's what I was thinking. The bolt on kit above would put them further apart than the A hangers, because the '40 axle is wider. With the weld on I could space it correctly, but then I suppose the heat would damage the seals?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  20. That depends on where the seal is in relations to the seal and how the weld on bracket is made. A well made bracket can be skip welded on both sides of the seal. However you should check the conditions of the seals, they may need to be replaced anyway.
     
  21. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 16,705

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There's no way the original seals are any good. Don't worry about those, they need replacing anyways.

    Many guys seem to use these perches on this era of rearend without problems. And, an old original spring probably sags a little, so it will be slightly wider already. Maybe these perches will put you at the perfect width.

    Or, if you have access to a ruined original rearend you can use the perches ala' Chris's method shown in his roadster's thread.
     
    flatford39 likes this.
  22. fiftiescat
    Joined: Jan 22, 2013
    Posts: 143

    fiftiescat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NY

    I think someone else mentioned it, but get ahold of Old Yankee Speed Co. Tell ‘em what you wanna do. They have the bolt on brackets. If you’re using a ‘40 axle, im sure they can point you in the right direction as far as a spring goes.




    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  23. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For what its worth I had already ordered the weld ons from Speedway last night. I can return them I think if they really aren't the way to go. Keep in mind that welding is really the only skill I am coming into this with. To me, welding on perches isn't a big deal if it's not going to fuck anything up inside the axle housing that isn't already going to need to be replaced.

    In semi big news:
    [​IMG]

    I got these things off with my neighbor's help, he had a big boy torch that made short work of it. All four bushings were seized to the kingpins and someone in the past had already mushroomed the heads out on the pins and then left them there to rust so they were stuck pretty good. I cut the heads off the top of the kingpins and pushed them out backwards.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    waxhead, brEad and RMONTY like this.
  24. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [​IMG]

    Making sure the later kingpins will work on the A axle before I order the kit... looks like a good fit. Gonna have to find someone to ream these suckers before I can really install it, that's gonna suck...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    48fordnut, brEad and J.Ukrop like this.
  25. RMONTY
    Joined: Jan 7, 2016
    Posts: 2,187

    RMONTY
    Member

    Talk to your resources there close by you where you got the parts, and see if they know of a Early Ford Friendly Machine Shop.

    Ft. Worth is bound to have some old grey beard machinists still operating.....
     
  26. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,676

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Call the hot rod builders in the area. Sachse. North Texas Customs, Dirty's, Bass Customs. Check in the HAMB Alliance list.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  27. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Has a vacuum port been staring me in the face this whole time?
    733C41BE-7984-4A3A-AB13-1A9E6C215380.jpeg

    edit: Lol yep it has been.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    brEad and waxhead like this.
  28. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,746

    flatford39
    Member

    I see that the king pin bolt is still in the axle. Did you just stick it back in so as not to lose it?? They have to be removed completely to get the king pin out.
     
  29. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 600

    trevorsworth
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have successfully removed the kingpins from the 37 axle and this is just me putting the removed parts (less bushings) on the A axle to make sure the 37-41 kingpin kit will work with the A axle. The picture you quoted is after I removed them with the spindles moved over onto the A axle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  30. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,746

    flatford39
    Member

    OK...that makes more sense. Just so you know those king pin bolts can be a bitch to get out as well but since the king pin is gone in this case you shouldn't have a problem. I would start soaking them so they come out easier.

    You can buy your own reamer for the spindles. It's something you can do your self with a vice, a wrench and the reamer. There was a thread on here about how to do it years ago that I followed. It was pretty simple.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.