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Projects Jumping in the deep end - my AV8 project

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by trevorsworth, Aug 4, 2020.

  1. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,825

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I can't believe a HAMBer hasn't stepped up and offered something,esp in TX.
    Have you tried the wanted section here?
     
  2. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    I should probably get a want ad out on here, especially now that I have cash in hand.

    I don't know if it's just my area but I don't see this stuff around here often. I have been looking since long before I got the engine and started posting here... the engine was just my first act of desperation after looking for a long time. I happened to get lucky with it. It honestly looked unbelievably terrible in the ad... I wrote it off and ignored it for weeks even though it kept coming up every time I checked craigslist. After another one fell through, I got frustrated and offered the guy 250 for what I fully expected to end up being a boat anchor. That was stupid and I hopefully won't make another leap of faith quite that big.

    That's why I keep coming back to the big question - how much longer do I want to wait? If I have to spend a few more dollars to get it done, I guess I am willing to do that, as long the parts I'm buying aren't junk.

    There was even a two or so year stretch when my main income was the local antiques scene, I worked for the largest antique store in town (a 3 story building!), ran estate sales as part of that business and personally knew tons of guys who would know where this stuff was if it was out here, or would know who does. I have asked them to ask around for me and have not heard anything back yet.

    It seems like the three or four guys I knew who had old hot rods inherited them or imported them from elsewhere. I honestly have had an eye out for about three years and until I went out to @amodel25's place to borrow his radiator I had never been within 10 feet of a Model A. I know there are lots of classic cars around here... but I can't seem to get into that bubble.

    This is the kind of shit I see around here.

    [​IMG]

    He wants $3500 for this and that is a Chevy frame. Compared to that, $600 or even the $900 for all blue oval stuff in usable shape is an easy pill to swallow.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  3. Dang, I had no idea my scrap pile was worth so much money. $600.oo for a Model A frame? I think it's time for me to purge some leftover's. I'm still in the $150.oo to $200.oo for nice A frames. I better start watching our Classified adds, I could change my lifestyle.
     
    flatford39 likes this.
  4. You might want to find your local Early V-8 Ford club and go to some meetings. Another option is the local Cruze in's once they start happening again. Go talk to people. I know that us Old Guys don't need to advertise our good stuff to sell it. It's just the Parts Pimps that use the Market places to try to Rape unsuspecting New Guys.
     
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  5. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    $200 for a frame, front & rear end, suspension, steering, brakes and wheels? I am going by HAMB classifieds prices & $600 for that assortment sounds reasonable. I understand that slicker deals sometimes pop up and I will eventually find one if I wait for a while... but the difference is slight in the grand scheme of things.

    Again I am not trying to quarrel. But I don’t yet have the deep inside connections that make it easy to find this stuff for dirt cheap and, for all the people I know around here, nobody else seems to either.

    If I take this I will still be in for under $1000 including the engine and have a near complete chassis almost ready for a body. That works out in my head.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  6. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    I hear you...I have a half dozen behind the shed. I know around here I would never get that kind of money. The Model A guys around here are notoriously cheap and would never pay that. $200 to $300 tops but most sell for $100.00 to $150.00. Patience is a virtue.
     
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  7. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,825

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A friend on here,glamb ,has a rolling 30 31 2 door.

    On the roller will you use all of what you buy? That's why the 600 pile is a better deal.
     
  8. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    Yep. I mentioned above that I realized I would not be getting anywhere by spending the extra $300 on the roller just for the “curb appeal.” The $600 pile is all the same parts, a little better in fact... just in a pile, and I would have to bust down the roller anyway so it being assembled already does me no good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  9. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,825

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When you start this, decide on your brake system. Mech, or hyd.
     
  10. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 329

    sdroadster
    Member

    I was in the same situation as you when I was young. I didn't have much, but I really wanted a hot rod. I used to by the leftovers from other guys for little money. I would work for years trying to save the parts, and build something I was proud of. The parts kept me broke, and many times I lost interest and gave up selling my stuff at a loss.
    Do yourself a favor, and sit down with a pencil, and estimate what it will cost you, for all the things it takes to build the car you are envisioning. Now start looking for a complete car, that has paint, and interior you can live with. Get a loan if necessary, and by a decent car. Then sell off the stock body, and mechanical parts you don't use. You'll be money and a huge amount of time ahead. The other benefit is you probably won't give up on it.
     
    the oil soup likes this.
  11. Aaron D.
    Joined: Oct 27, 2015
    Posts: 826

    Aaron D.
    Member

    If you're happy with paying $600 for the pile, the guy seems to have a lot of other parts, pull the $600 pile out and evaluate what is all there, then see what else you need from his parts inventory and try to get more items for the same $600.
     
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  12. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    Just to give you some comparisons @phat rat has three A frames in the classifieds here since July 16, 2020 going for $150 to $200 each. They are about the same shape if not better than some of the stuff you posted.

    Also if you buy that A rear end make sure you pull the bells for inspection of gears. You are looking for pitting. Take a 9/16 socket and ratchet with you. If he balks on you splitting it walk away.

    If you want to use an A rear end behind that V8 keep in mind it wasn't designed for the additional torque. As long as you baby it you will be alright but I have a feeling that's not what you have in mind. Otherwise get used to replacing axles or at least key ways. If you want a banjo than look for a 35 to 40 rear.

    I would tell the guy to keep the rear and offer him $300.00 for the frame and front axle. See where he comes back. If he says $500 than you know what he thinks of that rear end.
     
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  13. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    How far away is Salado Texas??? An A frame just got listed here 17 minutes ago for $275.00. It looks like a pretty nice one too. the seller is @barnone50
    It looks like its only 2.5 hours from you maybe 3. That's certainly in my range to get something I really want.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  14. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    That is certainly a nice looking frame and only about 2 hrs away. I drove almost 4 (and 4 back) for the engine so that is definitely within my range.

    If there are any problems with the frame in the set I am going to look at I will see what kind of deal I can rustle up for everything except the frame and go for that one.
     
  15. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 3,825

    48fordnut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's the one. Go for it. No r/e that you won't be using.
     
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  16. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    But also no front end, suspension, brakes, and wheels that I will be using, not to mention this guy has some other things I need that I can work into the deal. I’m going to see if he has any later banjos or if he will sell without it & for how much first and go from there.

    Let’s say I take the other one for 275... how much will I be out for a separate rear end? Front axle? Steering? Springs? Brakes?... at the end of the day does it save me anything?
     
  17. Just for fun and because I was next to it here is an 8RT for my jalopy racer. The distributor is for a Chevy converted to flathead use by bubba here on the Hamb. E578CFC9-785C-4C3A-BAAC-009E92E11292.jpeg This is a great thread. I'm not a young guy but was younger when I started building my '34 Chevy (in my avatar) back in 2006 and that is how I found the HAMB. You are getting some great advice here and I'm excited to see where this goes. I did not always buy things "the right way." My truck was in a dozen pieces when I got it. The people you meet along the way while gathering parts and knowledge will be more valuable than your finished project!

    I may be going against the grain here but you could certainly get your project going with that rolling frame and upgrade things as you go along? Thousands of hot rods were done that way through the years. Hot rods evolve over time. I didn't look that closely at the chassis pics but you could get it going with your flathead and mechanical brakes and upgrade later.

    Best of luck to you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  18. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    Brakes??? you really want to use the Model A mechanicals and not upgrade to hydraulic??? I just bought a really nice 39 rear for $175.00. More than I usually pay but it was a good one. Front axles can be bought anywhere from $50.00 to $100.00. Rear springs are $50 to $75.00. Front springs are about the same.
    It's a shame that COVID knocked out the swap meet schedule. That's where you really need to go to see what this stuff really sells for. The one in Saldo is best offer as well which indicates he will negotiate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  19. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    I have seen many people say that the mech brakes work just fine when set up right. I am not married to either idea - please keep in mind I have never driven a Model A period and I don't really have a point of reference. Mechanical brakes seem like a bad idea in general but these are old cars, full of bad ideas, and I want to use old parts because I want the experience.

    When it comes to picking one or the other I tend to think that if I want the same experience my grandpa and his buddies had with their early hot rods I should start with mech brakes since that's what they had on their As... if I am not satisfied with them, conversion kits are ultimately not especially expensive and nothing could be more of a pain in the ass than building this thing up from parts in the first place... going back and converting later will just be an opportunity to invite some of the friends I make along the way over and drink beer.
     
  20. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    Once you get the motor and transmission mounted in the frame you are going to see there won't be much room left for the yoke and other mechanical brake components but it is your choice. It's going to complicate exhaust, battery position and others.

    One last thing tonight....remember that the frame is your foundation. Everything starts there. Buying one of those clapped out ones you have been showing is only going to cause misery in the future trying to get the sheet metal to line up. The $900.00 one was a hay wagon. If you don't think the farmer didn't overload it and abuse it than go for it but you will spend a lot more correcting it than a good foundation to start with.
     
  21. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,192

    adam401
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've built hot rods with both mechanical brakes and juice brakes. Mechanical brakes can work well but it takes some effort. Mechanical brakes are cool with like a hopped up banger or a 21 stud flathead. Early stuff. The late engine with mechanical brakes is like 2 different eras of stuff.
    Running the v8 3 speed trans will not allow you to run the model A pedal assembly. So you'll be fabricating a crossmember to hold the trans and fabbing pedal mount and linkages etc. Its like the juice isnt worth the squeeze.
    If you could find a rolling 39 or 40 frame and you had a model A frame, you would be totally in business. Youd have everything. With a little cutting and welding youd have a full blown period correct hot rod chassis. Start hunting.
     
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  22. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    Regardless he is going to need to fabricate a rear trans mount as the A motor mounts are not compatible with any of the V8 flatheads. Depending on what he fabs will affect the mechanical brake parts. Your right the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

    Here's a tip...look for an F-1 rear trans mount. They need to be cut down to fit but work nicely with the F-1 pedals.
     
  23. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    I don't think either of these frames are real roached but I will definitely be measuring and inspecting joints/welds before any money changes hands. Like I said, that might be the one thing I knew how to do before I started this. I have already said I am no longer considering the $900 frame because it isn't going to do me any favors, hay wagon history notwithstanding.

    I have spoken to the seller and he is more than willing to let me pick out a different rear end or sell without, he has later banjos. It may be that I am able to get a rear end that already has hydraulic brakes.

    On brakes; there is so much information to absorb about these cars' sub-systems and how different eras of parts play nice together that I expect I will still be making goofy mistakes like this long after I have the car on the road. I didn't realize the mech brakes would physically not be compatible with my V8 (without a lot of extra pointless work), so that makes a convincing argument for juice. In the long term I don't plan on retaining the 3 speed but if everything else falls in place first it may happen that the truck gets built with it just so I can tool around for a little while until I get a better performing trans.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  24. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 2,192

    adam401
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Once you have a pile of parts in front of you it will start being less abstract. Good thing about early Ford parts is there is alot if compatability. Its easy to mix and match. If you buy a part that your not going to use but its in good shape you just sell it. Early Ford parts sell easy.
    Find a frame, find a body. My theory has always been once you have the rough pile of a project the parts start finding you. Parts are magnetic to each other haha. You meet people, you find parts stashes, people get stoked about what your doing and point you in the right direction. Weve all been there. Remember this is supposed to be fun
     
  25. Did you see the A Frame listed in our Classified section in Salado Texas for $275.oo? It's currently on page 1
     
  26. Shadow Creek
    Joined: May 14, 2014
    Posts: 217

    Shadow Creek
    Member
    from Summit, TX

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  27. trevorsworth
    Joined: Aug 3, 2020
    Posts: 216

    trevorsworth
    Member

    I have seen it... I think the one I am going to look at today is in about the same shape and comes with a lot of other parts that I also need which adds up to about the same. I am keeping it in mind in case this one doesn’t work out.
     
  28. flatford39
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 2,675

    flatford39
    Member

    Just make sure you measure corner to corner with a 25'0 tape. Should be within an 1/8. Also take a rafter square with you or any long straight edge and check for sags around the rear motor mounts in the frame. Should be flat with no gaps.
     
  29. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 1,776

    rusty valley
    Member

    the frame on the hamb says " it came from a restored roadster" that to me means the numbers and title are currently being used on another car. so, this frame could not be registered with its ford numbers
     
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  30. rjgideon
    Joined: Sep 12, 2005
    Posts: 531

    rjgideon
    Member

    If you do get only a frame, I have one of the cheap Speedway Model A front spring packs that you can have. I had to get the shorter posies spring for my frame.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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