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Technical iskenderian 404 jig

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by firebrrat, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. firebrrat
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 92

    firebrrat
    Member
    from Payson Az

    Does anyone out there have a iskenderian 404 hog ring tool or have seen any repops of them?


    1582224787444.jpg

    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
  2. I too would love to see one. I own all but the hog ring tool& could make if I had pic. Will make anyway but pic would be a plus. thanks
    Cheers
    Tony
    Would also love a nice copy of pic shown & any other instruction pics.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
    firebrrat likes this.
  3. firebrrat
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 92

    firebrrat
    Member
    from Payson Az

    Rich S. likes this.
  4. Rich S.
    Joined: Jul 22, 2016
    Posts: 293

    Rich S.

    Speed Gems likes this.

  5. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,795

    banjorear
    Member

    I think cam grinder Pete in CA has one he'll loan out, but you'd need to call him to see if that's accurate.
     
  6. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,975

    Fordors
    Member

    That would be @Pete1 in Washington.
    I have no knowledge if he lends out the drill jig.
     
  7. banjorear
    Joined: Jul 30, 2004
    Posts: 3,795

    banjorear
    Member

    Pete Samuelson
    D&L Automachine
    20409 SR 706
    Elbe,Wa. 98330
     
  8. I believe we are both looking for the “hog ring “ tool to form the wires that keep lifters from rotating. I have the drill jig. Thanks for the hot rod article. cheers
    Tony
     
  9. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,053

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Had lunch with Isky today and mentioned this post. He said his machinist would charge him $20 each for the drill kits. Now Isky would loan out the kits for $25 if you bought the cam and lifters and would refund the money once the kit was returned. Unfortunatly the kits were seldom returned
     
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  10. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 2,975

    Fordors
    Member

    Hog rings are used in upholstery work, Isky just adapted them to his needs. If you Google hog rings a number of different shapes and sizes will show up. Hog ring pliers are used to pinch the ends of the ring together to hold the fabric to the seat frame.
    For your needs the difficult part may be finding hog rings of the right diameter wire that will fit the slots in the lifters, and then the rings also need to be formed with 90* ends like the ones shown in the article. You also need the right spacing of the ends to match the center to center distance of the holes in your drill jig and enough length to bend them.
    It may be easier to get the correct wire diameter and make your own instead of trying to find rings that are correct for your application.
     
  11. firebrrat
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 92

    firebrrat
    Member
    from Payson Az

    Hi Tony do you have any photos of your jig? Were looking for a jig or some photos so we can try to build one.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  12. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,380

    King ford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from 08302

    Greetings all! ....I'm at a loss as to why it's desirable to not have the lifters rotate on a flat tapped cam....or is that just for adjusting purposes and the they are " set free" to rotate?
     
  13. Because the ramp is so aggressive a radius is needed because the square edge of a standard lifter would skid or dig into cam lobe/lobes.
     
  14. ^^^^^ This is pre-roller cam stuff right here. Isky has a great story about going into this but that's another story and engine all together.
     
  15. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,053

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    NO!, It was because the cam had an inverted flank and needed a radius lifter to drop down into the valley. Isky first saw the shape on an offy engine with a Miller cam and figured it was a good profile to play with and found some midget races to try it on their Flatheads and it worked good. called it the "404" because the name sounded good to him. Later showed the profile to Winfeild for his thoughts, Windfeild said it was his design and profile, but could not keep up with the demand, so he made a set of masters for Miller to ease the load on demand
     
  16. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,053

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Not to get into a pissing match, But that is not ED talking in those tech tips, Eds reference was from them days he made them and those engines were not the performers as current technology. There were no spintrons and computers, just racers willing to try any new Idea. Iskys first cams were a mistake as you could hear them 3 blocks away, but sold a bunch of them to NASCAR (at the time) because it gave the racer the power needed when they needed it, and they didn't care if they made noise. Does the Idea work today--- NO.
    Isky has lunch everyday(for the most part) at the corner of Gardena and Broadway between 1 and 2, come down and talk cams with him before its too late
     
    1oldtimer likes this.
  17. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,770

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Man, that would be worth the cost of admission (if there was one).
    A suggestion, if anyone takes Bruces' advice is to listen more than talking or as Judge Judy would say "put on your listening ears".
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  18. firebrrat
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 92

    firebrrat
    Member
    from Payson Az

    At the burger shop?

    Sent from my SM-G950U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  19. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,053

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    Around hear we call it "Iskyburger" was there today. For Ed it was coffee-soup and a burger on rye plus a half a bottle of Tapatio hot sauce
     
  20. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 3,053

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    According to ED, the wires were made by the same guy that made the drill fixture and they were made from 3/32 welding rod (copper clad) and bent in another fixture
     
  21. David Coleman
    Joined: Oct 15, 2019
    Posts: 29

    David Coleman
    Member

    Ed Isky is as good a guy that ever walked the face of this earth. He might remember Coleman Bros Speed Shop
     
  22. I know the place well. Been there when Ed has been there as well.

    I'll simplify what I tried to convey to King ford with an illustration instead of words.
    upload_2020-2-24_18-15-4.jpeg
    Yes the 404 isn't a roller but it's lifter be that it's solid with out a roller needs the radius it has so it won't do what the upper two left images show above.
     
    firebrrat likes this.

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