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Hot Rods Iron Duke owners, will it work.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Koz, May 13, 2019.

  1. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    Toying with throwing an Iron Duke into my roadster. For the guys who have them, would I be disappointed with power in a light roadster? I have a 283 set aside which I will use in another project so it is not wasted. Running a '40 rear, 3.78, 29.5" dia. rear tires, and a '39 trans, Ford gears. Car weight is around 1'800 lbs. I have a beautiful vintage two piece adapter to put the baby Chevy in there. I'm thinking a decent cam, header, and twin '94's to wake it up a bit. Just don't want a total pooch on the highway. There's a load of threads on here that talk about the Iron Dukes but they don't touch on how well they run too much.
     
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  2. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 666

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    ironduke.jpg We ran Iron Dukes in our IMSA car with the special aluminum flo thru head, mechanical fuel injection. Also in the Nascar Dash series with same head but carburetor. Both dyno'd out at 400 plus hp. That would be a cool set up if you could find one of those heads. Still, with some mods it would perform just dandy with stock head.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  3. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    I'm thinking I could get 130-140 HP out with reasonable torque. No ball of fire but that is OK.
     
  4. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,706

    oldolds
    Member

    Just a little info after a quick search.
    Iron Duke engine
    Engine type
    Description
    The Iron Duke Pontiac engine VIN code A is a 150.8 cu in Straight-4 piston engine. All Iron Dukes were built by Pontiac beginning in 1977 and ending in 1993. After this time, the GM 2.2 L OHV 4-cylinder replaced it across the entire lineup of vehicles that offered it. Wikipedia
    Cylinder bore: 4 in (101.6 mm)
    Fuel system: Carburetor; Throttle-body fuel injection
    Torque output: 123–135 lb⋅ft (167–183 N⋅m)
    Specific power: 34.4 hp (25.7 kW)-44.5 hp (33.2 kW) per liter
    Piston stroke: 3 in (76.2 mm)
    Power output: 85–110 hp (63–82 kW)
    Compression ratio: 8.2:1 (1977–1983) 9.0:1 (1984–1993)
     
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  5. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,706

    oldolds
    Member

    At 110 hp in stock form You should be able to get to your power range with a little work!
     
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  6. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 1,500

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    If you'll be happy with , " HO HUM" performance , then go with the 4 , the little 283 is about perfect for a hot rod roadster IMO.......
     
  7. mkubacak
    Joined: Jun 20, 2005
    Posts: 75

    mkubacak
    Member

    So, is it an Iron Duke, or a Chevrolet four cylinder you are wanting to use?
     
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  8. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    The Iron Duke and the Chevy being two different animals I have a chance to snag a 153 incher out of an '80's Jeep. It will need a bit of work to make it do what I want ut nothing unachievable. HP ratings are right in there with a street flathead, although I'm sure the flatty has it torque wise. The only reason I' considering it is it would be very easy to cool, plenty of engine bay room and I could run a single exhaust out the back which really interests me. The car it's going in would be really light and it would free up my 283 for another project. Here's a pic for reference. Those are temp wheels on there. It will have K-H bent spoke wires and is probably going to be black on black with a tan top. 002.JPG
     
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  9. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 1,943

    upspirate
    Member

    I had one in this roadster and was happy with it, but I don't worry about tire smoking performance.
    It handled well and if you wanted to change to a V-8 later, the length should be close I would think 20171001_222246.jpg Scan0001.jpg
     
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  10. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 1,943

    upspirate
    Member

    That's probably the rod I would like to have back the most
     
  11. raven
    Joined: Aug 19, 2002
    Posts: 4,154

    raven
    Member

    We need more pictures of your build, especially how you attached the glass body.
    r


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  12. Jokester
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 308

    Jokester
    Member

    I once had a '60 Ford Falcon with a 153 4 banger from a '63 Nova (very similar to your iron duke). It was hooked to a fully synchronized Saginaw 3 speed. It ran great and had much more snap than the original 144 six cylinder. I think you could be happy with it in a light roadster.

    My nickel.

    .bjb
     
  13. Better re-check that deal ..153 CHEVY in Postal Jeep ... 1967-1971
     
  14. mkubacak
    Joined: Jun 20, 2005
    Posts: 75

    mkubacak
    Member

    If it is an Iron Duke out of an early '80's Jeep, it is 151 cubic inches. If it is a later four cylinder, it is an AMC 150 derived from the AMC six cylinder.
     
  15. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 5,591

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    400hp is pretty good in a 3,600lb car.
    200hp in your 1,800lb roadster might be comparable?
     
  16. charlesf
    Joined: Jan 14, 2009
    Posts: 135

    charlesf
    Member

    Not sure we're talking about the same engine. "Iron Duke" has been used to describe both the '60s 4 cylinder used in Chevy IIs, etc., and the 151 used in the '70s -'90s in everything from Monzas to Fieros to S10s. I used the later engine, out of a '92 S10 in my lakes modified, with companion T5. Works great in this light car. I had the cam reground to make it a little more interesting, tigged a couple of flanges on the intake to mount twin Carter YFs, had my brother fab an exhaust, and topped it off with a sectioned Chev 235 valve cover to make it look like a Model B Ford overhead conversion. Photos attached.

    BTW, it's for sale. IMG_6412.JPG IMG_6413.JPG IMG_6409.JPG
     
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  17. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,706

    oldolds
    Member

    I personally think it would be a fun ride. It will have sports car performance. Think MGB, TR-6. You might not have the performance of a hot v-8, but you should be getting over 20 mpg. So with that 10 gallon tank you will both get there at the same time on a 200 mile trip.
     
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  18. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    I need to throw a build thread up here. There is some really neat stuff on this car. Definitely not your run of the mill T bucket. It's way further along than the pic. shows.
     
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  19. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    Now that's what I'm talking about! Sweet ride and has the "look". I've been spending too much time looking at old banger Lakes cars and I just love the appeal of the mini motors in a small car.
     
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  20. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    Still waiting for this guy to get back to me. I need shots of the 'bell" area to make sure it has the Chevy pattern I need. I don't need one with the FWD pattern obviously. Craigs list is always interesting.
     
  21. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,195

    King ford
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from 08302

    Greetings fellow HAMBer!, what kind of fuel tank ( original application) are you using?...I'm wanting to build a modified and your tank ( Koz appears to be using the same one as well) is perfect!
     
  22. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    The tank on mine is a "Tanks Inc" 1934 Dodge Coupe or Sedan tank that I flipped over and relocated the filler an sender inlets to the top of the tank. I then made two new end caps to replace the ones from Tanks to eliminate the big x's in the ends. Just to make sure it didn't leak I sweated the original seam that is now under. I also added the notch to the rear to clear my crossmember. If I calculated correctly, (should have payed attention in math class instead of daydreaming about hot rods), I should still have about 14 gallons in there. In hindsight, for the effort I should have probably just rolled the shell as well. I will say that the Tanks product is of excellent quality and easy to make work on something like this. 003.JPG 003.JPG 005.JPG 003.JPG 005.JPG 003.JPG 005.JPG 005.JPG
     
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  23. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,354

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    WHen I was first starting out in life, my beater car was an 87 Pontiac 6000 Coupe that had been hit on each side, front & back at least once and had the later "Iron Duke" sitting on top of whatever POS transaxle GM used at the time. And you know, that car was actually fun to drive. Part of the fun was the total lack of regard for the appearance of the car and the terror inducing spent shocks and the seat that was missing a couple bolts but that engine DID have a little punch to it. Mine had TBI which worked pretty good but it ate alternators, I think a starter, and a coil pack. It surprised (terrified) a lot of people who rode along and sounded awesome when the exhaust system fell out behind the cat. I rattle canned it black with deliberately bad flames down the sides. I still miss that car sometimes.

    I would absolutely rock an Iron Duke in a glass bucket modified like that, especially with that QC rear and an OD transmission. It may not be a particularly traditional setup but one that's probably easy enough to make look right.
     
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  24. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    You guys have pretty much convinced me this will work. I know I can pull a few more horses out of it and with the '39 box I'll have no overdrive but with the 3.78 rear I probably will do just fine. The quicky is a fake as the last car I built with one just drove me nuts on 200 mile runs. The whine was cool for about two days and that was it. The one on this is a faux center that Speedway used to have, (courtesy of Homemadehardtop57, thanks Jerry!), and with a 2" spacer and the rest of the center painted with Alumablast they look pretty good. (The pic above did not have the spacer in or the center painted when taken). I've heard that somebody out there is repoping Frontenac valve covers. If I can find one it would have the perfect look on this sucker! If anyone knows who maybe you could give me a shout. It would be pretty easy to make a Rajo or Crager style valve cover as well. I saw one like this 30 years ago at McCungie on a '28 roadster that was just perfect. I had to take a second look to see that it wasn't a hot B block. The one on Charlesf's car posted above made from a Chevy six valve cover really has that Cragar feel. If I could find a 181 inch motor they have the crossflow head and would really have the Riley look. So much fun stuff here.
     
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  25. You are right.. The Chevy II 4 cylinder has been described as an Iron Duke lately, and quite incorrectly.
    They are not even the same bore and stroke. I believe they do have the same bore spacing, but that's it.
    The Iron Duke is a Pontiac marketing term ( later called the Tech 4)
    So, let's clear that up right now.. Hate seeing dis-info on the web:eek:
     
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  26. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 5,838

    krylon32
    Alliance Vendor
    from Nebraska

    1972. Built a glass 32 roadster with a Chevy 4 banger hooked to an aluminum glide trans, I beat the hell out of that combination. After you got used to it you just left it in low a little longer to get going fast. I drove that car all over the Midwest with no problems.
     
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  27. If you want to use a 151 Pontiac, the bellhousing is not a problem. You can use an early T200 , 3 speed from a Camaro or S10 or a 700R4 from a 60 deg. V6 or even a 4L60-E from an S10..No worries about a TV cable. All have the FWD bolt pattern bell.
    If you were to eliminate the TBI, you would want to use and earlier HEI distributor with vacuum advance from a carb-ed model.
     
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  28. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 1,500

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    450 HP in an 1800 lb roadster is a hot rod ( just right ).....
     
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  29. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    I', running a very traditional drivetrain. '39 Ford 3 speed box with Ford gears, '40 rear with 3.78 gears. I put '48 bearing carriers on the '40 rear to get the hangers I needed to hang my Model "A" spring. I dislike the look of the fabricated 3/8 plate hangers that are usually employed to do this. I feel the rear looks extremely old timey. I have a very old two piece adapter that uses the Powerglide ring to adapt to the Chevy 'bell pattern that is used on many of these. As I learn more here I am leaning toward the 181 inch Penta style motor which has the good head and more inches. I can use the front sump no problem in this car, (although if I can find out how to put a rear sump on it hell yes). This motor puts out 140 HP and 177 ft. lbs. of torque stock. Supposedly, with a decent cam, header and dual carbs along with a little ignition work you are into 200-225 HP territory and still streetable. This is equivalent to a hot street flatty. These motors have five mains on a four cylinder so the bottom end will handle just about anything I can do elsewhere. My drivetrain is pretty much a fuse anyway so how much more can it handle? I just need to get it to look this good.... 28Ford-041-1024x681.jpg
     
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  30. Koz
    Joined: May 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,165

    Koz
    Member

    My drivetrain is all done. There is absolutely no extra room anywhere in this car for a bigger trans......LOL!
     

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