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In spider gear trouble on a Ford banjo

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Rootsgroup, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. Rootsgroup
    Joined: Jan 26, 2008
    Posts: 58

    Rootsgroup
    Member
    from Indiana

    My first dive into a Ford Banjo rear has gone sour.

    I was nominated to go in and remove the welded spider gears, replace with stock, and return this fresh 40 or so rear back to an open diff.

    Not so simple. The spider gears and cross shaft I got all look to match up ok, but when I set the new spider gears in the carrier (ring gear half), slide the other half of the carrier onto the left axle, mate the two carrier halves together with left side axle only, the axle is locked in the carrier. I don't even have the nuts on the carrier bolts. The axle won't spin the spider gears, some sort of clearance issue.

    I've searched quite a bit on this site, and from that search I'm assuming this:

    Apparently the two axles, cross shaft and the spider gears are a matched set. I saw a post that hinted on this, but I don't know for fact.

    Can anyone shed some light on this dilemma? I think I can get the axles that were matched up with the donor spider gears but don't know if they're the right length at this point. I sure seems that there's more gear that can rotate in the carrier. The carrier halves mate up ok, but that's the point where the bind occurs.

    What ya' all think?
     
  2. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Rootsgroup
    Not sure if I can help, but may shed a bit of info to you. Up thru 1936, I think, the spider gears had 12 teeth. After that, 11 teeth is the norm, and I'm pretty sure that the axles have to match that. I ran into this when converting my 36 rear to open drive. Hope this helps some
    Jim
     
  3. Jimmy2car
    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 1,707

    Jimmy2car
    Member
    from No. Cal

    Oh, I almost forgot.. The spider for the 11 tooth gears has "flats" on each shaft, whereas the earlier spider does not. Also, the spider cross should be removed and replaced in the same orientation that it was removed. Can't remember much else
    Jim
     

  4. Kiwi 4d
    Joined: Sep 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,174

    Kiwi 4d
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As a thought have you checked the axels match the spider gears?
    81A 4215 11tooth spider gears--post 1939
    18A 4215 12 tooth spider gears-- pre 1939

    even with a bad gasket shims or no gasket on the axel bell to adjust side load the axels should still turn.
     
  5. Rootsgroup
    Joined: Jan 26, 2008
    Posts: 58

    Rootsgroup
    Member
    from Indiana

    Thanks for the link, using that I was able to find out I've got 16 tooth axles and 11 tooth spiders. Also the cross shaft has the flats. So everything should work, right?

    To explain a little more, I made a fixture for my vise and have the ring and carrier half setting in it with the ring gear teeth up. I said in my 1st post, it was the left axle I was using, but must have been tired, it's actually the right axle.

    I have put the spiders in the carrier, put the other half of the carrier on to enclose it, and rotated all 4 spiders with a pick thru the axle hole. No problems there.

    If I set the spiders in the carrier and put the axle on top of them w/o the other carrier half, the axle does not rotate smoothly. I assume this is from the teeth bottoming out on each other, but when I put the other carrier half on she'll lock up.

    I'll put everything in the parts washer this morning to get a better look at it, and let you guys know. Thanks for all your help.
     
  6. Rootsgroup
    Joined: Jan 26, 2008
    Posts: 58

    Rootsgroup
    Member
    from Indiana

    Ok, I got all the parts through the parts washer, everything looks ok.

    Took the cross shaft, 1 spider gear, 1 axle in the carrier w/o the ring gear. Two nuts to tighten the carrier together.

    Axle bound up in the carrier. Looks like the axle gears too fat in the teeth? Tried it w/o any spiders, axle turns. A little end play in the axle to the center of the cross shaft. So it isn't that.

    If the axle could set a little deeper in the carrier, looks like it would be ok.

    Pullin' out what hair I have left. What gives?
     
  7. Rootsgroup
    Joined: Jan 26, 2008
    Posts: 58

    Rootsgroup
    Member
    from Indiana

    The problem is solved!

    If you guys ever get in this situation, check this-

    Look at your spider gears closely- if they each have 3 oil holes drilled in them, and they have an "L" stamped into the end of just one tooth, there's your problem.

    Lincoln Zephyr! I was given a set of these by mistake! They are slightly bigger than 11 tooth Ford, and will jam up your carrier big time!

    Sometimes the most bizarre things have the simplest answer......
     
    markjaramillo likes this.
  8. Vergil
    Joined: Dec 10, 2005
    Posts: 785

    Vergil
    Member

    Thanks for the update, good info to know.

    Vergil
     

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