The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Nov 12, 2010.
That was great! Should be required viewing in American History classes!
I stopped buying the magazines when they all became sales brochures for rims and aluminum radiators, I got tired of paying for advertisements. I just want to read about cars, and this Forum allows me to be both reader and writer, as well as teacher and student. The magazines lost touch with their audience. I could go on and on, but I wouldn't be saying anything that hasn't been posted above. Thank You to Ryan and every single contributor to this Message Board for continuing to make this the best outlet for motor heads....
read that post 3 times and I still don't see what he was talking about.
I grew up reading mainstream hot rod publications, and they were (for better or worse) what dictated my and most people's perception of the hobby for many years. Unfortunately, that perception was that billet, fiberglass, EFI and IFS were the only way to build a hot rod.
Generations of people were made to believe that you could not possibly enjoy this hobby without a TCI chassis, Fat Man MMII and a deep wallet.
As with "Janet", about a decade ago, I came across the Jalopy Journal, via Daniel Strohl's modified website. After a 20+ years of reading hot rod magazines, I had never seen a modified roadster. My world was forever changed. The concept of traditional rodding was truly a revolution for me and my generation.
As I have said before, I think that traditional rodding is what will save this hobby and preserve it for generations that can't and don't want to participate in the commercial servitude that plagues the mainstream automobile customizing industry.
Like all businesses with high overhead, the "Janets" are slaves to the bottom-line and must worry first about profit rather than vision. Thus, as has been said, advertisers become the main audience and the reader suffers.
While we can surely appreciate the pioneers of hot rod media, the fact is that things changed, they refused to, and lost touch with what and huge segment of people in the hobby wanted.
Surely I can understand the anger and disillusion that "Janet" and her cohorts are feeling. Nothing frustrates a professional more than being behind the curve and not seeing where your customers want to go, but that is the risk you take when let your vision be clouded and direction be altered by financial quotas rather than passion, heart and soul.
I heard the phone book was on the way out as well. I like a good magazine on the crapper, but with these smaller laptops and notebooks I can have the HAMB there now instead without the adds! The HAMB has provided friendships, tech, views of great cars before they hit the mags and some real good comedic entertainment (like the haiku thread just to name one). And you can ask (username) to post a pic of the right spindle or that cool bracket they made ect. Can't do that with a magazine. Way to go Ryan. Thanks.
Wow. The magazine business is learning the hard way as the music industry has. Maybe loosing sponsorship to web sites ruffles a few feathers. People will buy quality if it the value is there. Personally I have chosen not to renew my magazine subscriptions as I have moved onto the information super highway. Difficult as it is at times I have learned to move on.
Didn't the whole idea of hot rodding get started by guys using technology to go faster?
I come here to learn. When magazines can give me 250+ pages of articles with live updates and archives and search maybe I'll reconsider.
If Henry Ford was a "janet" the 32 with the V8 flathead would never have happened.
Dammit Ryan... now look at what you've let us do. I now feel ashamed that Hot Rod quoted me in their issue where they discussed fake patina...
I was going to suggest you change Janet's name to Sally or Nancy... but somehow Janet fits. I never met a Janet that was worth a damn... and she never seemed desirable with Chrissy in the room anyways.
Most of my feelings are summed up by Saxman.
And to Janet... just do your job and cover shows and sell ad space. You should leave the opinions and finger pointing to the intelligent folk.
"With a complete lack of appreciation for the men that brought this industry up..." Obviously someone who HAS NOT read your writing for the last 10 years. Dolt. I think the key word in that quote is "industry." NOT what you or we are about. Keep it going Ryan, you must be doing something right, as the HAMB and JJ grow, and those magazines readership shrinks.
Disclosure: I've made a living in the car magazine world for over 30 years now and I don't want to see it die - yet. Jobs man, jobs.
Ryan and I have mixed it up a few times on this subject and I have come to agree with much of his view point. The days of talking "at" the audience instead of "with" the audience are dying fast. And printed "news" is yesterdays news. And yes, some print folks have displayed a self-importance that is totally undeserved. But don't dismiss the role magazines have played in expanding hot rodding throughout the world - it's a fact.
There's an active post on here right now asking " what is an Ididit steering column?" This guy obviously doesn't read any SR magazines because Ididit advertises in about ten leading mags every month and are one of the most respected manufacturers in rodding. He could Google steering columns and get to their site but that info will be just more outbound advertising too. And this is where websites like the HAMB and others could improve - offering opportunities for basic awareness of what's new and who's making what new cool component that you didn't know even existed. (We call them "new product releases" in the old world). Then we HAMBers could share our own experiences with the products and let it live or die on real-world feedback (which is what the web does best).
BTW, Lots of talk on this thread about "innovation being the driving force of hot rodding". But most of the HAMB posts seem to be about "how to do it like they used to do it 50 years ago". Most times anyone tries to show anything slightly modern it gets flammed immediately. So which is it?
Finally, I re-read the "Janet" post. It seems to me he was mostly upset about the fact that HAMB guys (and Ryan sometimes) are quick to slamb the magazine's efforts, but the magazines ARE in fact now acknowleging the power and influence of the HAMB in the hobby. Magazines are not the enemy of the HAMB. They take nothing away from this community. Take'em or leave 'em. But don't pretend they had no part of the history and popularity of the hot rodding legacy.
Of course he really exposed his cluelessness when he said "you have allowed your readers....! Allowed? That says alot!
The Hamb has only given to me. Never taken.
Reading Janet's letter makes me feel a little sad for him if he's truly a car guy. Like many others, he let a small number of posts on a vast forum get to him, and throws away a valuable resource because of it.
I wonder if he took the time to read about Andy? Look at what happened for Andy because the Hamb exists. I don't need to expand, we all know and feel it and that's ours.
I wonder if Janet's ever thought about what it takes to create or restore a traditional rod? I mean the real hardcore guys on here that wince at even reproduction parts. Guys that clean up and use old ford bolts on new builds so there's no grade markings or rebuild old master cylinders so that everything's genuine. Those dudes are the gems of our hobby. Some might hate the newer stuff with a passion and get vocal about it, but that just keeps that crazy little fire burning and I appreciate that they're around.
Janet, you've got it wrong man.
Janet, your email is annoying. I'd like to comment on what you mention, item by item.
the industry is an odd way to look at the history. The history Im referencing represents men, women, salt, tarmac, tools, fuel, machines and inspiration, not dollars. <O
Janet, Id love to debate what the fabric of hot rodding means to you. The fabric of hot rodding doesnt represent an industry, glossy photos, and piles of words. Without hot rodding, youve got nothing to write about, no photos to snap, no industries to advertise, etc. So, what is hot rodding, Janet?<O
Then, you say Ryan is a simple kid. I take that as trying to be a derogatory jab. While Ive never met him, my only interactions have been professional, kind, rational, and enthusiastic. If he chooses to call himself simple its more likely because he seems pretty humble about things.<O
A complete lack of appreciation, oh Janet, that seems spiteful. I feel like you need to extend your keyword searches. (I guess youve never seen the thread where HAMBers post up their cover cars) First, lets start with the blogs, that information has been out there to be appreciated. If hes the one bringing it up, then good for him. Hell, hes referenced old magazines many times, hardly stealing. Oh, and for the hoodlums you mention, have you ever seen the history and photo threads they contribute to? How about the build threads? Theres grease under the fingernails, a slew of amature photos, and hardly a reference to xyz companys parts. These guys are continuing to add to the fabric. They arent a bunch of dolts, they are kindred hot rodders.<O
There are people whom speak their mind in all facets. Yes, there are those that do so carelessly but thats humanity, Janet. <O
You wrote I want to warn you about the reputation you are leaving in your wake of destruction. If I could retort that even though melodramatic, youre referencing a man who has passion. To which, Ill say this. I once read that the ancient Greeks would not eulogize a mans death, rather theyd ask, was he passionate? It scares me to think I sit at a desk throughout the day squelching away my passions to feed, clothe, and insure my family. However, theres no doubt by the legacy that Ryan is creating if thatd have to be asked about him.<O
So, Janet, do you speak for all of the hot rodding print world through this email? I wonder what your colleagues would have to say? While I do get how difficult the Internet has made things for the print industry but Im not sure that Ryan is to blame.<O
Lastly, I wonder where your actual beef lies? Is it Ryan, the trash-spitting reckless hoodlums, the thieves of your hard work, or is it actually none of those? <O
Wait, is Janet a man or woman? I see a lot of people referring to Janet as a man? If so, I am sorry Janet, now I get why you're so mad.
Ryan , I guess you just can't please everyone ! I guess Janet needs to have her engine "bored & stroked" to make her running happy once again !
I myself am here everyday rain or shine no matter how I fell ! I always check in to see what's going on or maybe to get some really good information about one thing or another BUT I will keep on coming back because this is what I like and want to read ! Keep up the great work for all so we can just make it through another day !
Yes the phone book is going under too . You will have to request one now . Fine by me because I get about 10 different ones a year ! Really sucks .
The so called car mags all look the same and have many of the same front covers due to they are all owned by the same company . So if one mag has problems they all do ! OH well !
Now onto the next thread !
Nothing written here on either side of the coin is going to convince the other side. But, would The Rodders Journal be anywhere near as impressive in digital form only. I personally don't think so. It would be a crime to only be able to view Steve's amazing photography in 72dpi. I'm not personally worried about digital replacing print. They're apples and oranges, and like Jim said, I try to provide something that you can't get on the Internet. Some care about that, others don't, and that's just fine. For me, I don't really enjoy staring at my the same screen I stare at all day to look at something I enjoy. I like to read on the couch or sitting at my workbench in the garage. I don't want to have to lug a computer around all the time. Maybe I'm just old (at 41).
As far as the HAMB being the implied sole force of traditional hot rodding, I take some offense as should others here who were doing their part to give HAMB types a place to play, meaning traditional-style events over the past 15 years.
I don't see the logic in saying that magazines have not been key to the longevity of hot rodding. In fact, I see it as very naive. I think it would be safe to say that by far the majority of hot rodders in the world got their first in-depth taste of the hobby from looking through a magazine, regardless of title of era. Yes, they only cover what is happening, but the reality is that without that word spreading in a massive way, the hobby would not exist in anywhere near the form it does today. No, magazines do not create the cars or put the blood sweat and tears into the cars, but they are a HUGE reason for the existence of the industry. No products=no rides. Yes, some of you will say that you get all of your parts from the swap meet. VERY few people can say that 100% of their car is built from scratch and old parts only.
I see both sides of the issue very clearly and see validity in both. To me, any real lover of history appreciates the involvement of magazines since the first issue of Throttle. Any magazine guy realizes that without the cars there is no magazine. Can anyone really say that we'd still have this hobby if it wasn't for the mass distribution of magazines like Hot Rod in the early days?
It's a very symbiotic relationship.
It is not Ryan's fault by any way shape or means that the editors of so and so and such and such a rag can not compete due to the fact that they are out of touch. If they stop reading the line of the average guy on the street they will be even more out of touch, shit, Ryan is doing them a favor, if they read this forum they can get a very good feel for what the world they are supposed to control and or represent really wants.
I stopped buying Hot Rod when it became a rag about 80"s Mustangs, same for Car Craft, Street Rodder even got bit by this bug. fact is that these people just do not have a true clue how to compete any longer. That's just ass sad too. If "Janet wants to know how to be a quality print magazine it's very simple for her to do so, she can hop in her Prius, toodle over to the Barns and Noble, go to the mag section and purchase a copy of the Finest Rod Magazine in the Entire World / BAR NONE. It's not cheap, but the print quality is fucking amazing, the rides are amazing, historic. The writing is amazing. See a trend here, the word amazing appears to be over used. What's amazing is that it is not over used. If the "Janets" can figure out how to be half as amazing, they just may survive. See, when you do good you get a pat on the head, they are out there, "Janet" just does not do good often enough. Oh and "J", it's really not our boys fault here that you guys are not "gettin it", lest you no comprende the Anglash, you have daily guide towards future greatness. Or, you can log off due to the pain that truth causes.
Ryan, I too had to read it more than once. Still I don't think I totally get his...er, her point. Part of me says it's apples and oranges, part of me says WTF?, and it seems that the reality is something very common in ANY form of interesting media or practice. Shoot down the winners every way possible. Without sounding to arrogant I do some pretty impressive restoration work. I've heard from various sources that I don't know how to paint or weld, I've NEVER done woodgraining, I don't know anything about Packards, and I only win shows because I have friends. Or, I over-restore and make "fake looking" cars and judges just like the shine. In my youth I'd answer it in defense of what I do, but it didn't take long to realize that my clientele is the only group I need ever answer to. Those answers are simply what their invoice is, our show schedule, what car to buy based on their needs. I could be guilty of making these lame nay-sayers do better work or be guilty of making their shit look bad.
So about TJJ, what is it that you "did" to the hot rod/streetrod world again? Oh yeah, you devleoped a site that investigates and re-discovers the history of automotive enthusiasts. You made available the look and style of an era that many on this board may not have known of otherwise. The HAMB made itself into a community of hot rod and kustom guys that spans several generations and the personal knowledge and experience in real time for the up and coming from the crusty old bastards themselves (I can say that cuz I am one). You prick. How could you do something so moral and noble, maintaining the roots of enthusiast history? We can cause ourselves enough grief listening to and responding to the posers and drama queens that actually join in from time to time, we don't need Janet's opinion along with it.
Still, theres something that TJJ and you have recognized and maintained in a manner that respects tradition and history. I find it timely that with the latest posts asking questions like "...most famous kustom" "...definition of hot rod" that this topic and entry came up. As many words that one reads here there's no words needed for what we're about. I get the message in your montage but having lived it means you get it just a bit more and enjoy it a different way. I came from a world of stick welding and OA welding, alkyd enamel, motor swaps from a come-along mounted to a reinforced garage rafter, hand-crafted motor mounts, pick hammers and body files. My dear 'ol Dad brought me into that world. He may have had some old magazines and such but they were just for perusing during a coffee break. They didn't give us much and they didn't jump off the table and sand the car. Few things can be a valued resource and source of enjoyment at the same time. Not TV, not many magazines if any. TJJ is easily both. Like my buddy says when we hear haters "Shoot for the top!" Why slam the one that's down? Go for the big dog...right Janet?
You're exactly right, Kirk, I agree and if I thought of that, I would have included it in my post...hahaha.
So, being someone in the field, where does the anger that's infused in his/her email come from? Some of the membership that spouts off? Like in the GG thread?
could've sworn i seen something on here in the past saying JJ was going to be printed by TRJ whatever happend with that? i wonder what JANET will say then.......
I'm not sure. I don't bear any animosity toward the Internet as it pertains to competing with magazines. I'm not a "magazine guy", I'm a car guy. I want info from anywhere I can get i, but I do think cars look better in higher than 72dpi though.
As far as Goodguys animosity, I think that comes down to lack of information and people following the opinion of others because they think it's makes them sound better.
Wow, it's like that email was written through time or something. Janet sounds like she is writing from 1992 and shaking her fist at the future. "Damn you kids! Why you gotta ruin our good thing? Our jobs are cushy and you're going to wreck it!"
I used to buy just about every magazine I could get my hands on 15 years ago. That changed after I found the HAMB: This is where I find the information and content I always wished was in the magazines. Now I only buy TRJ and Kustoms Illustrated.
Janet - why blame Ryan and the HAMB for your customers' dissatisfaction with your product? Why not try to get better and gain back your audience? The diffusion of responsibility shown is shocking.
Janet seems to have a bit of God complex. As if magazines created hot rodding. She fails to realize, none of those magazines wouldn't have existed without hotrodders, backyard tinkerers, speed junkies and yes, hoodlums.
Thanks for the video BTW.
Just sounds like a bitter cry baby to me.
also... i buy the magazines all the time but am getting tired of the physical quality, do i really wanna spend 6-7 bucks on a mag thats so flymsy that it cant stand up under its own weight on the shelf without getting bent up, the pages are so thin you can see whats printed on the other side while your reading it, and the pages fall off the staples the first time flipping through it,
and sloppy printing with blurred words or pictures of the car you really wanted to check out.....(yes im talking about R&C)
Who knows, but I sure as hell will, as I've always done in the past. I take what I do as seriously as Ryan does TJJ and the HAMB. I also make certain concessions when necessary in order to keep doing what I do...it's part of the game. But regardless how much the Internet, and subsequently forums such as this, makes my job harder every day, I ain't about to throw the towel in...not just yet. I've been doing this longer than the Internet's been around, and while it's fairly obvious I'm fighting a supposed losing battle, I'm going down with my re-soled Red Wings on if that's indeed the case. If not, then I can feel a bit of pride for keeping R&C alive.
But regardless of everything I've just said, at the end of the day, I'm a hot rodder, plain and simple. That's a fact neither the magazine nor the Internet can ever change.
I check the H.A.M.B a lot more often than I buy magazines. The video was great by the way.
Hmm. I've been following this place since '99. Signed up in '01.
I miss the old HAMB days, especially with a few individuals who rarely (if at all, or maybe they're still banned... Mud? I know Germ is still around and I miss him and his posts). Anybody remember Mud's home made tunnel ram? I DON'T miss the Smart Shoppaz who were rolling nine wide...
Anwyay, times have changed on the HAMB too... and for the better... even if some good stuff got left behind.
One thing about Ryan's video is I noticed he put up a lot of old stuff which directly pertains to the past and heritage that the HAMB/JJ follows. Finally in the end we see the Old Crow.
Alot of what we see here on the HAMB these days reflect the thoughts, opinions, rants, raves, talents, how-tos, whatever of 120,313 people currently registered on the HAMB. No telling how many lurkers we have, such as new lurker/former participant Janet. How the hell would ANY print magazine be able to reflect that? Would we have seen Cole Foster's build of that 36 Ford? or his blue bike? Would we have seen Condor's rails? Would we have seen Bass' coupe? or Bleed's stuff? and how many people have been able to express their artwork on Fridays? Anything? I doubt it. I think the HAMB today reflects society today and shows it like it really is. BONUS... I am sure that the HAMB allows us to record history on a real and home grown level better than it has ever been done in the past.
One way the HAMB has helped me: I had to build metal flashing around my fireplace chimney on the roof (centered in a wierd position with 3 different rooflines with 3 different pitches!), and on the roof-mounted HVAC. Guy wanted to charge me $1,200 to do it. I told him off. So what did I do? Someone had put up a technical post on the HAMB on how to replace sheetmetal on oddly shaped panels/contours of cars. They used manila envelopes or something and traced out the weird-shaped cut holes and was able transfer the pattern to cut the metal to an exact fit and weld it in. So what did I do? I found 3'x4' sheets of galvanized steel at Home Depot, bought 10 for $75, used 3'x4' pieces of cardboard and used those to shape the flashing that I needed... then applied them to the galvanized sheetmetal. 8 hours of work, $75 spent... and the HAMB saved me $1,125. I've love to see ANY print magazine teach a dumbass like me to do that.
Thank you Ryan, and listen to the Janets of the world with a grain of salt.
^This is my only problem with the HAMB.
Say something about an putting an SBC in a Model A and it's like you lit a bag of shit on their front porch.
I agree, Ryan is NOT the problem. He has provided the forum for the people to openly discuss their favorite subject. Janet, in his printed format, cannot provide this interactive forum. Thanks Ryan for this forum.
Several of the posts above, stated they had to read and re-read Janet's email to figure out what he/she/it was trying to say. Maybe that is why Janet's magazine doesn't sell. He can't write in such a way for the public to understand.
In a nutshell....This person can go fuck him/her self.
Separate names with a comma.