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Hot Rods I'M GOING TO BUILD AN ALTERED.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Don's Hot Rods, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. sc5080
    Joined: Feb 8, 2009
    Posts: 14

    sc5080
    Member

    Here are a couple of (bad) pictures of the Bantam I had back in '95. The car was wrecked when the steering wheel came off at 145 mph - the reason I will NOT have a quick detach wheel in my cars now.

    483435_10200889968836522_2088874057_n.jpg 644206_10200889969036527_2143817092_n.jpg
     
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  2. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,008

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    What kind of quick-disconnect did you have?
    And what, specifically, failed on it?
     
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  3. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,588

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    One of those cars shows from Discovery had an episode of some car guys doing a build, I think they all worked at the same firm. Year one? maybe?
    And the one guy was telling about the firm, and how they started. One of them was building a muscle car for his daughter, way back. He wanted a brake disc/brake upgrade kit.
    When he called around to get prices and what not, he got they same answer everywhere.

    In the most genuine and honest southern voice he said: all speed shops said, we don't sell anything that slows your car down!

    I like that quote, and use it to make fun of people that run
    Large engines and no front brakes/bad brakes.
    Stopping is as important as going. For drag racing front brakes ain't that important, but braking still is!

    Just my 2 cents.
    And Don and Sons hot rod shop ;) I like you plans, I like your build, I like how you follows true and all the respect for way of doing things.
    Brake story didn't have much to do wit you, sorry.

    Keep at it, and keep pictures coming.


    Rasmus Brynk Andersen, from Denmark.
     
  4. sc5080
    Joined: Feb 8, 2009
    Posts: 14

    sc5080
    Member

    It was a Wilwood pin style quick disconnect.

    Never really knew why it came off Brad. It had been checked at "strap in" time with the "tug test" but for some reason it released and came off right at the stripe.

    What made matters worse is that my crew chief was driving the car for the last pass in his NHRA competition licensing. Car ran a 9.04 @ 145 on that pass as I recall. Anyway, he went on to drive an Alcohol Funny Car - won the National at Brainerd last year.
     
  5. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,008

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    I put a splined quick-release on mine. After asking for opinions over on Yellow Bullet, a lot of guys said the splined connectors are better than hex-style because the hex eventually gets sloppy. The pin-style connector also don't always lock, or the profile of the pin gets worn from sliding on and off the recess in the male part of the assembly.
    I also like the 360-degree release ring... if I'm upside down and disoriented, I don't want to have to play "Find The Release Pin" on the steering wheel.
    Mine also has a second catch--push it all the way onto the splined end, and it catches. If you don't get it all the way on for some reason, and it starts to pull back off, it catches a second time.

    -Brad
     
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  6. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I haven't had anything new to post on this build lately, been waiting for parts to arrive so we can move on to building the frame around them. Last week my rear suspension showed up from Ron Pope and he did his usual great job on them. Here is what I got:

    [​IMG]

    And.........my 9 inch rear is arriving tomorrow on the big brown truck coming from Currie, so with that I should finally be ready to start mocking up things. It will be a little while on that though, Dan is down with the flu and I am not feeling great myself, so maybe next week we can get to looking at it all.

    Don
     
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  7. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,400

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Those parts along with the rear end will keep you busy for a while.
     
  8. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,423

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Don,
    I was about to add you to the MIA group.
    I like the looks of those rear end brackets and pieces, very similar to a rear end I'm doing. If you get a chance later, I would sure like to get an idea of the weight of your complete rear end. I'm calling mine, 'An Exercise in Lightness', and will have a section in my book on the build up.

    As to you and your son feeling under the weather, so to speak, you boys need to come to Michigan. We have to shovel our way to the shop in single digit temperatures. That will build you up and prevent those FL germs from getting 'holt of you.
    Bruce
     
  9. Nice parts Don.
     
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,981

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    One thing I like about Popes brackets, and something worth noting for first-time rear suspension builders, is that his 4-link axle brackets are made to wrap 360 degrees around the axle tubes. That insures that the distortion on the housing is minimized. I had one axle where the 4-link brackets were welded only to the front 180 degrees of the housing. As a result, the warpage in the housing had the slicks toed in by over a quarter of an inch. Not good for best e.t.s, not to mention unneeded tire wear. Going down the track under hard accelerating the axle will tend to toe in even more (hence, the need for a back brace). So good choice for the bracket design.

    Also for you new builders, you may be wondering how to get the brackets on the tubes, if the bearing ends are already welded on. I just drill a 1/4 hole near the edge of the front edge close to the axle hole ID. Then I band saw thru the brackets from the back until I intersect the hole. The hole allows you to spread the plates open enough to slip them over the tube without cracking apart completely.
     
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  11. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,966

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    That toe in sure will give you forward bite though.
     
  12. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,981

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Why does toe-in give slicks better forward bite? Maybe I'm missing something and I should re-do my rear axles, which I have tried to keep "zero" toe.
     
  13. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 4,899

    pitman
    Member
    from Hampsha

    Perhaps Mr. F-Flyer likes to expend his HP moving forward?
     
  14. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,966

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Well it was just a joke. We would do it on are R/C cars to help with forward bite.
     
  15. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,017

    rooman
    Member

    It might work on RC cars but in the full size world any toe in will tend to make the tire drive inwards until the sidewalls cry enough with the result that the tread area has a tendency to snap back outwards before the cycle begins again. Ask me how I know! :)

    Roo
     
  16. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 4,690

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Don, On your pile of parts, I noticed the bolts have fully threaded shanks. I trust you are going to use the proper bolts with shoulders completely through both link plates.
     
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  17. Babyearl
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 610

    Babyearl
    Member

    Nice catch Marty, that is often overlooked.
     
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  18. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,017

    rooman
    Member

    One of my pet peeves Marty. At the hit it is going to either wear the threads off the bolt or the threads are going to "machine" out the holes in the brackets. And coarse thread bolts are even worse (and should only be used on farm machinery). At the very worst a long shank bolt with the excess thread cut off should be used when the proper AN/NAS hardware is either unavailable or excessively expensive.
    The other thing that Don will have to contend with is keeping the pinion angle correct as he adjusts the four link as the holes in the frame brackets are not in an arc.

    Roo
     
  19. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    When I get to that stage of assembly, I will address that bolt issue.....good point. As for the pinion angle changing, I am not a dial in kind of guy......once I set this suspension up I am not going under it at the track to change it. If I do have to alter it after running it for a while it is a simple matter to turn out the rod ends a little to keep alignment.

    As I have mentioned, I am not going to be a serious racer, this car is going to get used only occasionally, and strictly to have fun with. With my work schedule, it will not be possible to go every weekend, so it will only get taken off the trailer probably a couple of times a month, if that. That is why I am taking a less serious stance with this build. :D

    I got my rear end housing yesterday from Currie, looks great. I had them leave off the ends so I can slip the brackets on for welding. I stopped by the shop last night and temporarily put the brackets on and they fit great. Once we get all the welding done I am sending the whole thing back to Currie to have the ends aligned and welded on for the final time.

    Thanks for all the input, guys, it is appreciated.

    Don
     
  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,981

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Re: occasional racing - I have a semi-retired roadster pickup that I let my neighbor drive at two races a year - a nostalgia race and a "reunion" race. I have found out that he is more successful when we visit the track a few days before the "big" races on test-n-tune nights and let him make a dozen or more passes in the car to get all the kinks out [in both the car and driver]. Many of the guys who do those types of races are just like us - only get out occasionally. Having been down the strip a few days prior really gives a leg up on many of them so we can go more rounds.

     
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  21. old round fart
    Joined: Jun 9, 2008
    Posts: 134

    old round fart
    Member
    from Norman Ok.

    I bought a book about a mid engine build and he stresses using AN bolts and reaming the holes to size to completely eliminate slop in suspension points. I've been building cars for 40 years and never thought about that, but I will do it that way from now on!
     
  22. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 2,956

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    The rod ends pictured are only comercial quality and should never be used in a rear 4-link set up. Good for mock -up tho
     
  23. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 4,690

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Don, Another thing to consider when welding the brackets to the housing and front mounts, is using a thin washer or spacer (.030) between the rod end and the plate during set-up. I use this method on all double-shear applications, as it maintains some space for slide-in assembly. When the bolts are torqued the gap will close tight. You probably already knew that, but others on here may not. You can make spacers with some sheet metal and a uni-bit.
     
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  24. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,966

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Question on the rod ends would it be necessary to use spiracle rod ends or could you use solid ends like Alston uses on there ladder bar front mount with the sleeves.
     
  25. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 2,956

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    You need rotation in the rod end as there is a minor amount of twist before binding occurs
     
  26. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,966

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Thanks that makes sense.
     
  27. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,950

    oldolds
    Member

    So let me understand this discussion about the 4 link parts just purchased. Don should put the bolts in the bolt bin and get better ones, He should buy new rod ends, and he should get new mounting plates because the bolt holes are not in an arc? So he just bought some tubing and Shocks in that kit? Not trying to be rude here, just a thought.
     
  28. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 4,899

    pitman
    Member
    from Hampsha

    I read it, as commercial rod ends were not up to par. The (lack of)
    arc, seen in a wishbone or hairpin, is a result of parallel bar's motion,
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
  29. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,981

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    One needs to temper all the comments about optimal parts versus the application. Running an 8-second Super Pro car week in and week out calls for a higher level of sophistication than having an 11 second traditional hot rod. Been there - have both. While all the criticisms are valid I think if everything is set up and properly torqued using the parts at hand then Don will be in for years of trouble free drag racing enjoyment
     
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  30. I'm finding all this information great guys,thanks. For those who ain't aware of the difference in " Bolts ", A Set Screw (as in the photo shown) has thread over the full length of the shaft, a Bolt doesn't so has thread only a certain percentage of the shaft and the rest is a plain shoulder. What makes the shoulder look slightly large then the threaded piece is the way the thread is cut but the outside measurement of the thread is equal to the should part. Does that make sense ? As for tensile strength grade 8.8 in metric or 8 for imperial is ideal. For greater strenth one can use 12.9 Cap screws of various designs etc. I sold hardware to the auto repair industry for many years and guys would come in to purchase " Bolts and Nuts " and I always asked how far did the thread have to go as 9 times out of 10, they wanted set screws.
     

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