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Projects Hydroboost brakes without power steering ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Rustytoolss, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Rustytoolss
    Joined: Jul 27, 2009
    Posts: 252

    Rustytoolss
    Member

    Does anyone know how a guy would plumb a Hydroboost brake booster on a vehicle were power steering is not possible. I figured that the guys on this forum would know if this is possible. Any help would be great. Also I need to be able to do this on a budget (no high dollar fixes) please. Thanks
     
  2. AngleDrive
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 973

    AngleDrive
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    The fluid lines T to brakes and steering so you can run pressure line from pump to booster and return line back to pump. Google search it, lots of info.
     
    stimpy likes this.
  3. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,087

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Just a day or two ago I read an article, somewhere, about a fellow who had hydro-boost brakes and decided to add power steering and just plumbed it in too. But, as stated above, P/S isn't required to use the hydro-boost brake system.

    Ray
     
  4. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,344

    badshifter
    Member

    Power steering is not possible? Or mounting a Power Steering pump is not possible? Power steering really has nothing to do with a hydroboost brake system. They just run off the same pump. Pressure in, return out. Wrecking yard and 80's 90's GM diesel trucks are good donors. BUT, not enough info from you to make a useful suggestion.
     

  5. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,531

    aaggie
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    Strolling through the Pick-A-Part I see a lot of late model Mustangs with hydro boost type master cylinders too.
     
  6. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 8,866

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    With power steer delete would you just delete the box (Rack) and route the lines accordingly? I will be also running an inline filter in my set up.
    Hydroboost plumbing.JPG
     
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  7. Texas57
    Joined: Oct 21, 2012
    Posts: 3,345

    Texas57
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    1. 1952-59 Ford Social Group

    I have a Mustang Hydroboost in mine with a power R & P. The High pressure line from the pump goes to the Hydroboost first, then to the rack via another high pressure line where the fluid is returned to the reservoir via a low presure line. The lines are not tee'd off going to each unit seperatly as stated in an earlier post. It goes thru the hydroboost to the power steering.There is also a smaller return line from the hydroboost. It's as in the above sketch. SO....my concern would be if you were eliminating the rack, I don't think you could just block off the line that would go to the rack, without creating a flow/pressure problem resulting in overheating the booster. Also, I think if you just rerouted the hydroboost-to-rack's line to the reservoir, that high pressure line would create a problem there.
    In a nutshell...and stating the obvious..........since the hydroboost was designed to be powered by a power steering pump, it was obviously designed to be used in a car with power steering. I had a ss reservoir custom made with 2 return fittings, but I honestly don't know what would happen if the reservoir received fluid under high pressure.
    Not an answer, but something to consider.
    BTW, hydroboosts will only be found in v-8 Mustangs, and starting in '01(?) the attached master cylinder had a larger bore size. prior to that, the bore size may be inadequate for older setups. They are an awesome setup. My car stops on a dime.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes. Just use a regular pump, with a single return, or cap the extra return. Cap the pressure outlet of the booster with a hydraulic-duty cap/plug.

    There are step-vans set up like this from the factory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  9. Texas57
    Joined: Oct 21, 2012
    Posts: 3,345

    Texas57
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    1. 1952-59 Ford Social Group

    I sure bow to Gympy's expertise...if he says it'll work, it'll work. Gympy...you don't think the smaller return line coming from the hydroboost is going to effect it's performance? I would guess there's also some internal restrictions as well as the line itself. I wonder if those internal restrictions could be opened up.
     
  10. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
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    Hang on. I just looked at the pump from the step van. It looks like it has two returns, too.

    I will dig deeper. It does work, since it is made that way.

    If I remember correctly, the return line from the Hydroboost unit is 3/8".

    Those internal restrictions are the same sized as the passages that send the fluid past the booster and on to the steering gear box.
     
  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
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    Just made a call.

    He says that both outlets go back to the pump.

    The internal passages must be what create the pressure to make it operate.
     
  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And it has a small cooler on the high pressure return line, the one that would have gone to the steering gear box.
     
  13. Some GM cars in the mid-80's used an electric hydroboost system. May have been the diesel Oldsmobile cars, or turbo Regals. Has an accumulator on the package. If I can find some more info, I'll post it.
     
  14. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,250

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Just thinking out loud here to see whats going on....

    There is no restriction in a rack until turning the steering wheel beyond a certain resistance opens the valve to allow the power assist to take place. Other than that the line is just flowing the fluid back to the pump.
    I'd bet the small extra return line is so that brake and steering boost can be divorced from each other while using only one pump. Otherwise you might get full brake lockup/or maybe no brake assist at all, if you tried to brake while the steering is also getting assist.

    I'm wondering is the SMALL return line needed if the power steering pressure line is just looped? Seems the only time that small return would be needed is when the brake is applied while the larger main line is restricted for pressure at the rack...which in this case is gonna be impossible.
     
  15. Rustytoolss
    Joined: Jul 27, 2009
    Posts: 252

    Rustytoolss
    Member

    I'm working on a 1964 Dodge A100 pickup(little red wagon type pickup). Adding power steering is almost impossible. About the only way to add power steering would be an Electric system (Saturn vue possibly)
    But I may be able to add a hydroboost for the brakes, as there is no way possible to add a regular vacuum brake booster. I have the room to mount the power steering pump.
     
  16. Rustytoolss
    Joined: Jul 27, 2009
    Posts: 252

    Rustytoolss
    Member

    I had read a post from the web on some site. That said you may damage parts if you just plug off the port that normally would have sent fluid to the steering gear.
     
  17. Rustytoolss
    Joined: Jul 27, 2009
    Posts: 252

    Rustytoolss
    Member

    So you know of a vehicle that has manual steering and hydoboost brakes that was factory built?
    I should just run a pressure line from pump to hydroboost. Then run two return lines from the hydroboost, back to the pump, right ? Do you think a guy could just put a TEE fitting in the return lines, if his pump only has 1 return nipple ?
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
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    I do not know if the booster is identical, but yes.

    A tee should work.

    Dual return reservoirs are not hard to find.

    The vehicle that donates the booster will have one.


    Traditional?
     
  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yup. That seems to be the case.

    Traditional?
     
    stimpy likes this.
  20. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    some of the Big chevy trucks were ordered this way as they were known to blow the seals of the steering gear out ( driver bringing up against the stops and holding it ) so many larger trucks they were manual ( had to order it this way otherwise it was power /power ) and also some diesels were ordered this way as a larger diesel you can order different powerplants from the chassis manufactuer and companies like Caterpiller/Cummins incorperated a power steering pump on there engines ( ancilleries are built into front drive cover and gear driven ) but it was not Hydroboost compatable as the motor was designed for a air compressor ( air brakes ) and you added a belt drive pump for the hydroboost .

    We had a school bus company that had Cat C7's in a freightliner chassis with Hydraulic brakes that were done up this way that I worked on .
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
  21. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    brakes are and it gets rid of that big ugly can on the firewall that sometimes gets inthe way of the valve cover , but people like me it allows me to keep the factory pedal under the floor where it originally at ( but the MC was put behind under the seat )
     
  22. Texas57
    Joined: Oct 21, 2012
    Posts: 3,345

    Texas57
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    1. 1952-59 Ford Social Group

    The Mustangs I looked at did not have a 2 return reservoir, they used a Tee in the lines. The custom ss reservoir I had made was about 120. Very good price for the excellent quality. I had mine done with a breather hole, but I'm thinking if a high pressure line is going to be used for a return, the vent hole should be eliminated...?? ps reservoir 011.JPG
     
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  23. Rustytoolss
    Joined: Jul 27, 2009
    Posts: 252

    Rustytoolss
    Member

    very nice reservoir tank.
     
  24. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,250

    Hackerbilt
    Member


    You need a vent on the reservoir so that the fluid volume can increase or decrease depending on temperature and expansion etc.
     
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  25. Rustytoolss
    Joined: Jul 27, 2009
    Posts: 252

    Rustytoolss
    Member

    Thanks for all the helpful information guys. Can always count on HAMB folks to help a guy out.
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You had that made for $120?! Holy crap!
     
  27. 54stude
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 66

    54stude
    Member

    There is en electric power steering pump on a 90's Toyota mr2 that could work out good for you if you want to skip mounting the ps pump on the motor. This could be totally hidden under the bed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  28. Texas57
    Joined: Oct 21, 2012
    Posts: 3,345

    Texas57
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. 1952-59 Ford Social Group

    "You had that made for $120?! Holy crap!"
    yeah..an ebay vendor. I'm looking thru old invoices for something else tonight, if I run across the invoice for that I'll post his contact info. Communication was excellent, delivery less than a week after we finalized what I needed. I forgot to mention, he also installed an internal baffle and a custom fitting at the bottom so I could use my oem rubber feed tube, thus avoiding having to modify the stock pump.
    Edit......Here's a current ebay ad from him. this one is just a normal ss reservoir with no custom mods.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Power-Ste...m3d1268418d:m:mey-_i42w2NLg4OO_HlGJpQ&vxp=mtr
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2016
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,452

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Mazda3 has one like that too. The EV conversion guys like it.

    I know a guy that was planning on having one run both a steering gear box, and a Hydroboost.

    Not sure if he got to it.
     
  30. cooter1
    Joined: Mar 17, 2014
    Posts: 21

    cooter1
    Member

    ive just read thru this . i have no power steering on my 50 pontiac but am using a hyd. brake boost . my return line on the reservoir is a clamp on . is the return line from the booster that was designed for the power steering going to be too much pressure for a clamp ? i intend to T the two return lines together . or maybe sodder a second return nipple on the reservoir . its the high pressure return that im wondering about .
     

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