Technical How much to charge ..

Hey guys, I've been doing side work in my shop for a while now, and I think the hardest part of the job usually, is figuring how much to charge people.
I have even had 3 customers over the years tell me I don't charge enofe.
I love working on old cars, and am good at what I do, mostly anything that has to do with old cars or motorcycles.
So I have tried just shooting out a price for the job, and I've tried giving shop rates.
Not totally comfortable with either.
Times like these I wish I had a sales manager, lol ...
Example, right now I'm working on a 37 Plymouth coupe .
For example,
King pins,
Full brake job, including all rubber lines, master cylinder, flushing lines, wheel cylinders spring kits.
Sealing differential, R&R pumpkin, inner and outer axel seals, pinion seal .
Transmission counter shaft leaking, so R&R transmission and seal cluster gear shaft.
R&R engine oil pan, seal it.
And of course, taking a trip across town to my bothers shop to use his Storm Vulcan to clean all the parts, and paint everything ..
So, can I hear from some of you guys as to what you would charge for this, it will kinda give me something to go by..

 

Most shops charge by the hour not the job, HRP

 

Thanks HRP, I usualy charge 65 a hour, but sometimes I get on a role and get a lot done in a hour, lol, maybe I should slow down hu ..
Ive had people freak when I tell them 65 bucks a hour, but done bat a eye, if I add up the time and just give them a total ..

 

Hourly. With old cars OFTEN things take longer because, well, they are old. Ever have a kingpin or spring perch decide it won't come out? Well, that 10 minute job just turned into some serious work.

Yes, you will get guys that want a set price, I will tell you from experience these are NOT the customers you want. One thing to give a time estimate on what it should take timewise IF everything goes right, but rarely does it.

 

Me , for that job $65-80 hr,
Also I would discuss with customer approximately how many hours you believe it will take and also discuss if run into a Major issue that you will call the customer , before proceeding,
I have ran into situations that you spend 4-5 hours diagnosing a problem and it's hard to charge a customer $300 and some dollars and you never did anything but Diagnose the problem , ( but at the same time you spend that many hours into it )
In my area most shops charge $100- $140 hr

 

Not a cent under $100/hr., in your area.

 

You want to cover the cost of doing business and a fair profit.
Do you have liability insurance and are you zoned properly?

 

first off you work on MY cars for free and i send you new customers ,
and then you pay me 10% of what you collect off of each new customer i send you.
your price chart on the wall should say...

 

I have a shop rate of $60 per hour. I give estimates based on how long it will take if everything turns to crap, for each part of the job. I add up the hours, (rounded up to the quarter hour) multiply by the shop rate, and give them the numbers. I track my time and actually charge them for how long it took to do the job, + the parts and write up the bill. The thing is, I won't charge them any more then the estimate! If the quote is for $1,000, the highest the bill will be is $1,000. If things don't take as long as I thought, the bill will be less. I tell the customer that. There is a built in cushion if I beat the time estimate on that $1,000 job by a couple hours, I'll add a little bonus for me, and give the customer a bill for $900. The customer is really happy!

Customers know the most it will cost them, and that if things go well, they will get a break on the price. I know about how much I'm going to make. Sometimes I don't make the shop rate on some jobs. Some jobs, I know going in I'm not going to make the shop rate (not often, and usually big jobs). On the jobs that I flat underestimate how long it will take, I'll do a better job of making the estimate the next time. I decided long ago that any money I do make is more then I had before, and more then I would have had if the job wouldn't have come in at all.
If the job went easier then expected, the customer is really happy, if it cost as much as the estimate was, they understand it was a difficult job, if it should have cost more then it did, they really appreciate what I've done for them! I have many repeat customers, and they tell their friends about me. I've been doing this for 22 years, seems to be working OK. I'm getting really good at figuring out how long things are going to take.

I don't do any job without telling the customer how much its going to cost before I start., and I don't do any estimates without looking at it in real life. Gene

 

Always estimates, never quotes.

A quote is a guarantee.

There are no guarantees doing custom work, on old cars.

 

Check around local car shops / mechanics in your area. Of they charge $95 an hour. Then you charge.$90. And if the customer wants those few things done like poseted previously. Think of how smoothe it may all go charge that smoothe price. Lets say example time that may take you 3 hours depend how fast you work. $270. Labor. Might want to ad in alil extra incase like that bolt that just sriped on you. You o ow that gona take 45 mins to fix that. So ad on if you feel you have a kind heart round up $300 plus whatever tax is in your area +8.5% tax. Lol

 

Go for the throat.

 

Call a restoration shop that only does old cars for their livelyhood........
I think you'll be surprised.
If a customer then balks at your fee you now have something to back it up!

 

Wow, must be a regional thing. Around here, "side jobs" are usually 30 or 40/hr. I typically don't take any side jobs (got plenty of work) but I like to figure my time is worth $50/hour if it's happening in my shop. There's a well equipped mechanic's shop in town that I bring late model stuff to, they're very good and I think they charge $75/hr.

Then again, you can buy a nice ranch house around here for $130K and gas is $2.30/gal.

 

Around Jasper, Alabama if you charge even $65 per hr. you'll be eating some thin soup.

 

my problem has always been repairs to perfection ...
i'm am NOT a mechanic...
i despise, DIRT so i go in the disassembly process with full on YUCK...
and WAY over do the clean ,check, brush, sandblast or glass bead and paint...
you get the idea ( OBSESSED ) reassembly is like a *heart surgeon*, I'm clean,
my tools are clean, and it all goes back BETTER than NEW ...

 

Time + materials is the only fair way on old cars. As you said sometimes the job goes easy, usually it doesn't. Either way you have to make a living. The markup you make on parts and materials also covers small things you don't charge for like electrical tape, WD40, and similar odds and ends.

It sounds like you are on the low side now. Keep on the way you are until you get more work than you can handle then raise your rates. This does 2 things, you make more money and it drives away some trade. The neat part is, it drives away the worst customers, the ones who demand the most for the least and have no understanding or sympathy.

 

if having work done by a guy working at his house rates should be lower than a shop because they have a higher overhead - if guy is a known professional doing work after work hours/retired than that would be different. simple things can go wrong that cause injury to you or, to owner if brakes fail, etc after you repaired them that can cost you plenty..

 

Time and materials and keep accurate time. When I was doing it I had a problem not fixing other problems when I found them. If you find other issues update the customer first to get the OK for further work.

 

Regional.

Where I live, the median home is $1,300,000.00.

If I charged $40/hr., I'd be homeless in a month. My take-home, after all overhead, has to be more than that, and after tax.

Gas/diesel is $2.63.

 

Remember the story about the guy that took his Ferrari (or maybe it was a Duesenberg) into a body shop to get a dent in the fender taken care of. The bodyman looked at it from all the different angles, then reached underneath and hit it with a rubber mallet and the dent popped out. When the car owner asked how much, the bodyman told him $500. Of course he screamed and demanded an itemized bill. The bodyman just took a pencil and wrote out - hitting dent with rubber hammer, $10; knowing where to hit the dent, $490.

 

Thanks for the input guys, gives me something to think about ...
I think around here new car shops like dealers charge 140 a hour, and other old car shops 80 to 110 .
Somehow I feel guilty charging that much for doing something I actually like doing.
chriseakin it correct, the money comes from the learned knowledge, not so much the work being done.
I've never actually kept track of my time, so I'm not real sure how many hours it may take me to do something, I mean I have a good idea, but not positive. so its hard for me to give a good estimate,
My friend told me telling someone a shop rate would give them "sticker shock" lol ...
The owner of this 37 Plymouth is gonna be here in a hour, somehow this is the very first time I never discussed pay, before I started the job, Guess the old guy just likes me and trust me, I drive old cars every day, all he has ever seen me driving,
Guess, Ill show him the work I've done so far, and the hours I've tracked, and see how it goes,
Thanks again guys, always get good advice here ...

 

I'm printing this out and it is going on my wall. I deal with this OFTEN on my CNC plasma table. Guys know that machine cuts out parts in seconds vs hours of hand cutting and grinding, yet whine that I charge "so much" for the seconds of time it took to cut it. They don't understand that the machine isn't magic, that I had to program that custom part and LEARN HOW TO USE THE MACHINE.

 

And PAY for that CNC machine$$$$

 

Mark i just had a YOUNG man do some WORK for me...
side job ...at his home extra money...
well i left 200 incase if he ran into NEEDING other things...
he didnt... i NEVER asked how much before he started , he only said AFTER the work was done,
that i had 100 bucks left over ---- i said KEEP IT ... he happy me ...

 

Charge an hourly rate and be accurate and on time. Anybody that's into this car stuff knows the rules and they'll comply or move on.

 

a buddy bent up some sheetmetal for a project I had, took him 5 minutes and he charged me 30 bucks. when I said "30 bucks? you were only gone 5 minutes" he replied with "yeah, but I used a $100,000 machine to make it"

 

It's not easy.
Some people get really goofy when you tell them a labor rate. It's better to estimate the total job price- it leaves out the comparison and mental gymnastics they do between their hourly pay rate and the shop labor rate.

 

I work flat rate, I have a reason, that is because I am old and don't move to fast. My time is based on $25.00 per hour, I have no overhead. if the book says 4 hours for a job that is what you pay, if it takes me 3 days that is on me.

I am very particular about what I work on and for whom. If I don't know you then it either takes an introduction by someone I know or you have to introduce yourself and we chat for a bit to see if I want to work for you. Everyone knows that I work on my own time at my own rate of speed and it will be done when I say that it is.

This works for me.

 

I charge 70 an hour some stuff is a set price and some flat rate and then some by the hour.
Most of the ones that ask how much can't afford it anyway. I don't give a shit.
The ones that are in a hurry are the ones that will try to screw you so I tell them it will be a month before I can work on it. It's kind of funny that someone that wants to screw you can not wait to do it.
I have worked flat rate for the biggest part of my life and have somewhat of an idea if the book is close or not and make my own adjustments on the flat rate.