How bad is a stock '41 Chevy coupe knee action suspension REALLY?

A few weeks ago a '41 Chevy Master Deluxe coupe followed me home. It's 100% original and the body is actually pretty solid...it will need inner rockers and floor supports, but other than that, it's all there. It runs, too, but it's still 6V, and the battery is dead, so I'm just going to convert it to 12V.

Anyway, I already have a rear from a '56 Chevy to swap in, along with a T5. Further down the road I'm going to unbury a 261 I've had for a while and replace the old 216 with it.

I plan on replacing the rear hydraulic shock units with tube shocks, but in the front, the hydraulic shocks appear to be part of the upper control arm. I'm not sure that I want to replace the front crossmember with a MII unit or anything aftermarket, but I've never dealt with an original knee-action front suspension before.

Are they good/bad/mediocre? I don't expect this car to handle like it's on rails, but can they provide a safe/comfortable ride that doesn't get dangerous over 20mph in a corner?

I want to make the car a resto-rod, so it will not have to have the latest and greatest of everything, although I've already ordered the front disc conversion kit and the dual well MC setup from Chevys of the 40s.

Thoughts?

Thanks...

Chris

 

I just got a 41 Special Deluxe. Sounds like it's in about the same condition. There was discussion about these on the VCCA forums (lots of good info there and very helpful knowledgeable people). The more "original" you want to keep it, the more useful that forum is going to be. Not sure if it's kosher to link to other forums here so I'll just leave it at "VCCA forums".

Subscribing to your thread. Here's mine:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=810619&highlight=lazy+daisy

 

They are good, been used since 36 in many GM products. Expensive to rebuild, use motorcycle fork fluid to tune them. Major problem is the way they mount. Really hard to get positive caster (keeps it from wandering over humps and ridges in the road) and has developed a bad name from that.

If it were mine....MII or GM clip. Fat Man has a good upgrade kit.

 

Knee action? not sure on that. Thought all 41 chevys had independent front suspension. mine does....The knee action front end was a strange looking thing that came on the special deluxe models in the mid to late 30's I f you have one CUT it OFF!!!!!! the front shock thing in the top A arm should be pumped full of gun grease, to lube the A arm. The down side is the steering box, and the rubber bushings in the steering arm/tie rod area. take that thing off and weld the shit out of it(where the slop is because of the rubbers) and put it back on! Now it will stay on your side of the road!!! make some shock mounts for the front. next is the sway bar, good design not near heavy enofe. I made one from a 70's caprice, and bolted right back on. get your new engine ready...that 216 won't last long

 

got one on my 41 olds coupe. im running a 350 chevy in it, it works well for what it is but i will be changing it some time in the future.

 

My buddy has that suspension system in his original 1938 Chevrolet. It moves along quite well for a stocker and yes does seem to handle not too bad. His needs an overhaul, leaks and probably down on fluid. It is one ugly front end suspension though.

 

I think that the biggest rub with them has been the expense of rebuilding the front ends and not necessarily how they drive.

 

I drove my 47 convert many many miles with the stock suspension. I added front shocks from a 73 to 87 Chevy pickup, Saginaw power steering with the pitman arm welded as suggested and Chevelle disc brakes. The ride was fair and the handling was worse-a floating feeling. I changed to a Chassis Engineering bolt on Mustang II and the difference is unbelievably better. The cost of all my improvements and parts to the original suspension plus the cost of rebuilding all the king pins and suspension pieces was more than the Mustang II conversion and I did all the labor for both. If you want to drive it, definitely go to a modern suspension and you will be happier and spend less money as well.

 

"knee action" fronts were only used on Chevies from 34-38; after that they used A-frame/coil spring fronts. Knee action fronts are not a good design and most people replace them.
Coil spring fronts are a good design and with tube shocks added on, make a good front suspension.

 

I have a 40 chevy master 85 sedan and a sedan delivery. They both have straight axles under them. My first choice is a gm subframe. I've done a bunch of them and had 2 of my own. They handle great. Second choice would be a straight axle. Alot depends on the stance you are looking for too.

 

It's A-arm independent front suspension isn't it? And you're referring to the integral front shock that's also the pivot for the upper A-arm...correct?

That's not actually the odd "knee action" suspension as was on the '30s Master Deluxe Chevys.

As chubbie said, fill the original shock with grease to keep it lubricated. They'll leak with thin liquid lubes. You might wanna take out the valves. Then install some tube shocks and mounts.

 

Guess I used the wrong terminology, sorry. The front suspension has an upper and lower control arm with a coil spring, much like most modern front ends. However, it has the hydraulic shock absorbing unit mounted in between the arms of the upper control arm. Haven't gotten that deep into it to realize if I can remove it or not and still use the stock configuration.

Chris

 

Once you SEE knee-action, you'll understand just HOW different is is/was.

Cosmo

 

This 34 Chevy came with the knee action front end back in the dark ages when this was built the owner removed it and installed the more common Ford straight axle front end. A real Knee action front end is butt ugly.


a real knee action.

We used to drain the fluid out of the 39 up independent front end shocks (upper control arms) and add on the modern tubular "airplane shocks". just be careful that the tire does not rub the shock when turned lock to lock. As long as you are not rallying it will be just fine for the street. Your stock 41 shocks are probably bad anyway.

 

I wonder if anybody ever made their own upper control arms set up (without the intergal shock) and added tube type shocks keeping the lower control arms, springs, king pins, and steering.

 

Chubbie,

You ahve any pictures of any of the things done that you mention here? When you say "cut off" the front suspension, so you mean in order to replace with a clip or MII? And the welding of the steering arm...pictures?? My car steering does have a lot of play that is a little scary on the road.

thanks
Paul

 

back before MII I used the stock front end on my 41 with great luck. Our expectations were a little lower then in the handling braking area. The 425 Olds made her fly though.....

 

Oh, by the way Barsteel, welcome to the 41 Chevy club. They are cool cars!!
Mine drives fine with the original suspension. I recently upgraded the rear with a Chassis Engineering rear end kit. Did that because I put in a late model rear to get 3.73 gears. The kit works great. Still got orig front.

Good luck with yours.

NRM

 

You don't need to on a 39 up. when the fluid is drained it's only purpose is a pivot point for the upper control arm.

 

A 41 should not have a knee action. It should have the 39-48 independent suspension. Please post a pic so we know for sure.

If some idiot did put a knee action in it?? Then you could find an original front end for the car and go that direction. But if you're going to all that trouble, might as well go Mustang II.

 

My 38 coupe has tube shocks on this front end. It uses the same upper control arm, but it is no longer a shock.

 

Paul, that old 41 chevy front suspension is usable, if it's not junk..bent ect. The steering is the weak link here. I have dropped spindles, new king pins, 4 piston disk brake with home made mounts. The early 50's 5 bolt front hubs are a bolt on. Big thing is modern tube shocks. someone said above they used 70's chevy shock to frame mounts. great idea. I drilled out 2 rivets in the bottom plate on the bottom of the A arm. made a braket with a bolt to hold the bottom of the shock. I still have 3 original tie rod ends on it. Make sure yours are tight or rebuild them. You just pop out the bad ones and put in new. There is a peice that comes off the steering box arm that connects the tierod ends. It has 2 bolts in it, it's an easy way to remove the box arm from the tierods. This has 2 rubber "cups" in it to make the steering "softer" on the road. Don't replace them (i did) Take this off and center it and weld the shit out of it!!!!! Rebuild the steering box with parts from Chevs of the 40's fill it with gun grease only!! If you cut off the steering shaft at about 8 inches, a DD to round steering shaft off of a mid 70's GM will fit right on and hook up to a newer steering column. No..no pictures to busy now to jack up and ect. Maybe could someother day.

 

Well if you follow this tread we have determind that the 38-48 front end is a independent front end not a knee action. I was tying to say if you have a knee action frontend ...don't try to use it as a hot rod...CUT IT OFF and replace it with a front end of your choice

 

Chuck, I looked at this. Man thats a lot of work for nothing, It might only clean up the under hood. But.. if you wanted to GM used the same basic set up for many years. You could use as new as 54 chevy upper A arms and graft the same upper frame to the '41 frame. 1962 and older corvette could also work

 

Thanks Chubbie! Great info.

 

I was looking to exactly what are stating for my 40 Buick limited. I was going to retain the original geometry as much as possible while making for a more modern adjustable suspension was planning to make a new upper a-arm mount, uppers arm,lower a-arms and use spindles from a late 60's impala so I could still use my original wheels and have the 12inch discs.

My car is a bit bigger and heavier also only the series 80 and 90 Buick of 1940 and 41 used my suspension so it was going to be hard to come by. Everything was to bolt in and not hack everything up. Now that I am back to working on this car. It may happen. Thanks for getting me thinkin again

Ken

 

Here is my 40 front crossmember i built out of 100% original parts except obviously the hardware and bushings. I drilled out the original shocks to fit hydraulic cylinders through and then added tube shock off the lower control arm like a 60s pickup. i drive this car everyday and it does awsome! its way more than what your planning on doin probably but I just wanted to show that you can ad tube shocks. we (gambino kustoms) sell the mounts to do so which are not on my crossmember. mine are bolts welded to the control arm which has been replaced! lol

 

Back then you had either an internal "knee action" like the pic that Tommy posted.( I think '38 or '39 were the last to have internal knee action. )
The lower "A" arm and upper "shock/A arm" combination is referred to as an "external knee action" were common to '40 and later. Not sure when they instituted the more modern version we are more familiar with.
If you have an issue with getting the front end replaced with a modern system due to the cost of a front clip plus the cost of having it welded in place, try pricing a Competition Engineering "bolt in kit". They have them for the front and the rear of most "vintage" chassis'.

 

Here are some pics of what I believe is a '46 front suspension that I used under my 28. I say "believe" because these pics are from 1960 ,I was only 17 when I did all this,so its a little foggy! It did drive great,I used a saginaw PS box on it. The rear is a 3 arm 58 chevy axle,and it too served well.Its still under the car and when I start the re-build in 3 weeks,I am leaveing the chassis configuration the way it was.

 

A 53 Olds I owned years ago had a similar setup,once I found a pair of good upper control arms/shocks it was not a bad suspension.