Hotrod Ethics...I Have A Question Of Those Who Build

I think of that when people talk of Thomas Edison,like he wasnt just the owner of a corporation with many others who were the genius behind him(Tesla for example).

 

Let me tell you a little story...

30 yrs ago I was in college working for the University as part time computer programmer (that was my major) to help pay for school. Loved the job, Director of the department was a prick.

Over the summer I could work 40 hrs. a week. Great, I can earn some extra cash. The Director comes to me with a project to write some profit and loss reports for the Unversity's athletic summer camps, and he needs it done in a month.

So I bust ass on this project, not even recording most of my time. But I did log the 40 hrs a week. My pay? $4/hr. Over that month I made $640.

A couple of weeks later I hear some lower level management talking about my boss making an extra $8k for some profit and loss reports he wrote for the University athletic summer camps. What?!!!

Being young and stupid, I decided after some sole searching that I was going to demand a raise after this little transgression. So I scheduled a meeting to discuss what I had found out. I march in, tell him I know that he got paid for a program I wrote (which was technically theirs because I worked for the University) and that I want a raise. He said, "Your fired". Grabbed my things and got escorted out by him.

Lesson learned? In business every day people are taking credit for other peoples work. I was just to young to know that and I lost my job (that I needed) over it.

You're just going to have to suck it up. Experience is what you get when didn't get what you wanted...

 

It's not only an issue of giving credit. There's also the issue of lying about the pedigree of the car.

Wow, is it just me? How can it be okay to say a new build is actually a 50 year old build? In what universe is that fine and dandy?


Also, so some of you are building stuff and would be okay if I bought it and said it was all done by me? I'm at a show and collecting all the benefits of being a fabricator. If that's the case, you guys are REALLY stand up fellas. There's a word for that in the art world. It's called "bastardizing the industry". When you produce something and allow someone else to take credit, you're hurting all the other guys who do need the exposure.

I'm in school for welding and we get quite a bit of math and textbook stuff tossed at us. I'm carrying a 4.0 GPA, so I get asked to let someone use my homework. I was even offered $100 to lat someone copy my final exam. I didn't do it, not just because it's wrong, but I'll be damned if someone is going to benefit from my long hours of studying and paying attention in class.

See, in the long run, this is why so many people don't have the knowledge or respect for what we do. They see some yahoo that can't tie his shoes saying he built a car and then they think they can do it too. That's the HUGE picture.

And GOD DAMN it, a LIE is just that. A LIE. How the hell does a new build get away with passing as a build from the 50's? And SOME people are cool with that? Give me a fucking break!

Is this an issue that burns in me? You're damn straight it is. Show a little pride in what you're doing, for Gods sake. Tell the asshole to stop lying about the car. Plain and simple.

 

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I think the O.P.'s situation stinks and hope that karma will take care of this guy eventually.

I recently did something I never thought I would do signed on with a professional builder (Jo Kerr of JoKerr Fabrication) to build my deuce for me. I don't have crazy money and was up-front with Jo about that. We talked and had a similar vision for the car and felt we could really do something neat with the car. We knew that if our vision for the car was realized that it would be a high-profile car and that his business could benefit from being involved with it.

I started a build thread on the car in August of last year documenting the build and our quest to have the car done for the Detroit Autorama this March. So far the thread has had over 50,000 views and received tons of complements about the overall design of the car and Jo's incredible workmanship.

The car will displayed in his booth in the basement at Autorama and will be shown a a couple of larger shows this year. We have also talked of Jo taking the car to a few shows that I will not be able to attend.

Our arrangement has been a win-win situation. I'm getting treated right on the cost of the build and Jo is getting a ton of recognition for his talents.

Everybody wins.

It's too bad the O.P.'s situation didn't go as well.



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(which was technically theirs because I worked for the University) Yep, THAT will get you canned. Because you understood before hand that whatever you did was their property. That is not the case with this car. The OP was the producer, the new owner is the consumer.

Tell ya what, take a Craftsman wrench, shave off the labels and try to pass it off as your invention or product. Or, tell everyone you found it under a bench in an old timers garage and it's 50 years old.

 

It always been this way since Al Gore invented the Internet.

 

He invented weather too.

 

Actually to put your name on a program that someone else wrote while it has no bearing on this thread is called plagerism. I may have misunderstood what was written but I got the impression that his boss received a large bonus for the program not the university. 30 years ago no one really cared about plagerism but it is different today.

Like I said it has no bearing on the thread. A fella has been dishonest about a car I think we all agree on that one point. Credit or no credit someone out there is not living up to our standards. Maybe we should give him the left foot of fellowship. Or we could just be advised that he is dishonest and go on with life. He really isn't required to live up to our standards and end of the day none of us are required to sleep with him, we are only required to lie down with ourselves.

 

After this thread someone will read this and confront your friend and the truth will come out,,one lie lead to another to cover the first and soon it snowballs out of control,,eventually the snowball has to hit something,,kinda like the s#it hitting the fan! HRP

 

You're right. Someone will bust him sooner or later. I just wish I could be there.

 

Whats goes around comes around--definitely underhanded but it will catch up with him at some point. This is not uncommon in our hobby for folks to claim they built something or to totally misrepresent the car-sad but true.

 

I was at a show with one of my cars at the time. Up walks this guy and he proceeds to tell the guy with him that his son's shop built my car.

I walked over and corrected him, the guy turned red and got all pissed off at me. Came back alone later and told me he was trying to get his son a customer. I told him to show the guy some of his sons actual work.

I like to get credit for my builds but it does not always happen

I am more pissed at the dishonesty claiming its a survivor

 

As long as I get paid I really don't care.

 

First off sorry to hear about your Mom as for all the work you did for the owner of the car and not to give you any credit really sucks . Im sure if there were folks there asking questions he would have come off to those of us that know what it takes to restore a vehicle that he had his head up his ass! what goes around comes around best of luck to you !

 

I was roaming the strip in Pigeon Forge several years ago at the Shades of the Past show and thought I spotted a chopped 40 sedan that looked familiar,,the last time I saw the car it was in primer so I wasn't really sure until I walked around the car.

The guy that owned it was telling the bystanders how he had chopped the car and had converted only one door to suicide style.

I walked away to catch my friend Alex (Deuce Gasser) who actually built the car and took him back to see his old car painted.

Alex was cool and ask him about the paint,,never saying a word about building the car and the guy broke into his long winded speech he had told word for word many times over as the people gathered once again.

Alex pulled the guy to the side and told him he was a bald faced lair.

The guy puffed up and Alex started tell him about things nobody else knew about,,the guys attitude did a 180 and got real quiet.

Just because you are 200 miles from home don't mean no one knows the truth,,BTW,he did do a good paint job,,or paid someone to do it. HRP

 

You now know how talented you are by the comments you received at the car show and on here,this is your billboard and you will hopefully benefit from it,as far as your so called friend is concerned,he's just a user,forget him.

 

Chalk it up as partial payment of life's tuition'

 

I can appreciate that you are upset about it.

But the test analogy is pretty far from the reality of the situation.

If you have to think of it like a test, then this would be the situation:
- You're not really in an organized class or anything. The world is your classroom. Everyone is a teacher, and they can grade you at any time if they feel like it. You can ask them to grade you, but they can do it without being asked. Most people grade everyone they meet out of habit.
- You fill out tests on the side for a little extra money. They don't have your name on them or anything. They're just commodities. And you understand this, but sell them anyway.
- One of your friends bought a test from you.
- Then he handed it in to a bunch of teachers who live far away and said it was his own work.
- You are disappointed because now you don't get credit. And you also were hoping to sell more tests with the word-of-mouth the last test generated, but your buyer ruined that plan.

If you want to make sure you get credit in the future, you could put your name on all the tests. But of course, some teachers will only give partial credit for a test with more than one name on it. Buyers will understand that right away, and some buyers will only be willing to pay reduced prices because they will get a reduced amount of teacher credit. For those buyers, teacher credit was their ultimate goal all along. But some buyers will be happy to pay full price because they just like having nice tests.

Or you can separate your advertising from your product. You can sell the tests with no name on them, just like you always have. You will probably make more money per job that way. But you will have to do your own advertising, which will cost you money up front. It might be better for you in the long run.

But what about that test that got away and still burns you up? Well, you could spend money and effort advertising the fact that it was your work. But it will be hard to prove, as your name isn't on the test, and possession is 9/10 of the law after all. He said, she said. Some people will never believe you when all is said and done. And it will definitely burn bridges with a person you considered a friend.

You could ask your friend to let you put your name on the test so future teachers will know it was your work too.

Or you could just let it go and move on, and be wiser in the future.

(The expanded analogy sounds ridiculous, but that gets more at the heart of the matter than a comparison to someone cheating off your homework.)

 

You have the situation mixed up. What the Director did should have gotten THE DIRECTOR canned. He used University funds to pay a youngster to write code, then he took the code and sold it to the University! That sounds pretty close to embezzlement. The Director fired the person who did the work because he knew how dangerous the truth was to his own job, and figured he had better get that person as far away as possible right away. If he had given in to a request for a raise, he could have opened himself up to serious blackmail. But if he cut ties right away, it would just be a disgruntled student's word against the Director of the department.

 

That's the shop I would use... although if I did I would never claim work that I didn't do.... just wouldn't want to use a prima donna shop that's so uptight about taking my money then claiming my car as it's own...

Anyway I do all my own work, don't care whether it's show quality or not, it's drive quality. No prima donna shop is gonna have to worry about it.

As someone said.... what's the problem? You do the work, you take the money, you move on to the next job.
Unless you like to lose sleep over what your customer is gonna say he did....

 

I'M sorry about your Mom.
The pain never goes away, you just dont think about it as much.
This dude will come back when he needs something. Something only you can do because you know what was done before. Tell him you dont work on survivors.

 

A common practice maybe, an accepted practice never in my book.

 

Here's my take on this:

I'd be pissed about him passing it off as a "survivor" I had a 36 Ford pickup that was a carport find, not a survivor by any means but it was patina'd and just looked cool all the way down to the vintage Moon green metalflake steering wheel. You would wash the truck and the latest layer of rustoluem would wash off with the water. It was cool. Thing that pissed me off about taking that truck to shows, people would ask me who did the paint job! I'd say huh? We bought it that way! Another instance, a guy was looking to buy it, he runs his hands across the front fenders(nice smooth original fenders BTW) and tells us, well its a bit rough, dude step away from the car and don't contact me again!

Lying about the pedigree on a car is just plain wrong. But now a days, its easy to fake and dummies believe it and buy them like that. Those who use it to get recognition for their cars are lacking...insert whatever you feel like they are lacking...

Karma's a bitch and it will come back to haunt him. All you can do is tell whoever asks you about the car the truth. Aside from posting a sign next to it calling the car a fraud there is little you can do. And I have seen that done before. At least you supposedly got some recognition, right?

My cars are 100% built by my family, when asked who built my 55, I say my dad did and my brother built the motor. When it comes to my race car, I say its not my car, I just drive it, it takes a team to build em.

 

Sounds like Alex has no sense of humor, no sense of proportion.
Why should he give a shit, once the car is gone?
And telling the new owner that, accomplishes what?

 

Well my two cents. I've built many cars for friends and others. The first this I do is remember it is not my car....I do the car as the person instructed me to do it. I love working on all types of cars. I love them. When a car leaves my shop, It is gone. What ever the owner wants to say or do with the car is up to him. If he is a ass hole that claims he did the car, from then on F%^$ him. If he gives me credit, good for him. I have seen over the years every kind of lier in this car hobby. I seems that a lot of these guys that have a car built by some one else can't stand the embarrassment when asked if they did the work. Sooooo they make up a story about the car and lie. Most the time I find out that these were the needle dicks that were driving up and down the ave in there mom and dads car wanting to be one of us. One last thing. This so called friend is a liar...He is not telling the truth behind this car....

 

Theres a lot of people on this forum, dont worry the word will get out in time. As for the guy, Im a firm believeer in the old what goes around, comes around theory. The guy is just a know nothing turd trying to take credit for finding a car. Is that really that big of a deal ? Post some more pictures so everyone will know what car to look for.

 

I want to see more pictures of this car...

 

the guy should not lie!
you should and deserve credit [you do have proof you built it?]
the biggest mistake you made was not confronting him and "working" out a deal for your silence.

 

The owner should give some credit where due. Nothing worse than a guy that pays for a car or to have one built and takes all the credit.

Beachbum Jim ---- thanks for doing my interior!!!!!

 

You are correct there, but I just chalk it up to a life experience. There weren't lawsuits flying everywhere like there are today, so I just left with my tail between my legs....