Hot Rods Hot Rod Tig Welders?

Good for you for saving your shop programs. The non-college-oriented students need them, and industry needs kids that have an interest and willingness to work the trades. Thanks for your efforts.

Yes... as a matter of fact, I was on a curriculum review committee at the high school I graduated from. I was asked to leave said committee when I suggested they shit-can some of the programs that were obviously in place to babysit students and boost graduation numbers, and instead concentrate on job related preparation. I understand the politics, do YOU understand that school administrations are made up of EDUCATORS whose main goal is to perpetuate their species? Look around your own school... what percentage of administrators and teachers are in it for the product (student learning) and how many are 'working a job'? It's obvious to me that you are the former, but I also believe you are the minority. I have friends and family members who are teachers, vice principles, principles and administrators. All I ever hear is how they'll be retiring at 55 y/o with full benefits (by the way, my wife is a benefit verification specialist in the healthcare industry, and she knows first hand how teacher's insurance compares to most of the rest of the world... it's GOLDEN!!)

I don't have a low opinion of all teachers: I have a low opinion of the system, and the way the educational BUSINESS has set priorities, directions and expectations for students that are unrealistic and unattainable in the real world. I have respect for GOOD teachers, just as I have respect for good welders, electricians, plumbers, carpenters and landscapers. I don't admire any profession above any trade, and vice-versa... it's all about how good an individual performs their skill. Stop and look at responsibilities of other professions: a welder doesn't get good penetration in a weld and a devise supporting people collapses, killing or maiming people... an electrician screws up and your house burns down...yada yada yada. Point is: EVERY job has many facets to it that are not apparent by the job description, that's the way the real world works.

If you noticed, I stated elsewhere in this thread that I think aptitude testing should be central to the educational system. What has happened instead is that schools keep pushing higher (and higher) education, to the point that what used to be a good degree (AA, BS, etc) is now just about worthless. They've become like belly buttons... everybody has one, and the value has been diminished tremendously.

I also find it interesting that while the educational system keeps pushing students towards advanced college degrees in professions rather than trades, the largest single unionized employer group in the country is... teachers!

 

100% correct!
To keep wages-to-buying-power in perspective, do a search of the federal minimum wage vs today's value since 1935 (or so, I don't remember when the fed. min. wage was established). Look at it carefully and you will see that the common argument that raising it will bankrupt companies, as the federal minimum wage today has much less actual value than it did in the past.
Also take a look at CEO to average employee compensation over the years. Until about 20-25 years ago it was about 20 or 30 to 1. Now it's very common to see 300, 400, 500 or more, not to mention the increase in dividends paid to stockholders.
We also need to factor in that young people today have no concept of working up through the ranks. They've never learned that book larnin' is only a small percentage of the education required to do a job competently, and expect max income right out of the gate.

 

What purposes do the computer programs serve?

 

In the case of my employer, they allow cars to drive themselves (and it works, right now).

 

Yeah right it works really well for Tesla doesn’t it ?
It’s going to be a long time before computers can safely drive cars on public roads.

 

Teslas have enhanced cruise control and lane maintenance. They are not self driving cars.

We have 250 cars on public roads in the City of San Francisco, right now, with no drivers. Zero accidents (except the three where our cars got hit by red light runners), zero incidents, in 770,000 miles, in 2020 alone. Our vehicles were better than Human drivers in September 2019.

I summoned one this morning and took it to work, and then another one from my shop to home (I walked from work to the shop).

Our performance records are publically accessible, reported to the State and Federal governments, and open to audit by both the State and Federal governments.

 

Who's the "we" and "our"? Genuinely curious as this sounds pretty groundbreaking...

 

That doesn’t change my mind at all.
I’m still saying no thanks to the whole thing.

 

I will PM you some links. I am not a company spokesperson, and would be in violation of my contract to make direct comment mentioning the company.

If anyone else has questions, please contact me directly. I will aggregate our public information for you. None of this is appropriate for this board.

 

Mind blown.

 

That may not be a decision you get to make. It is far more advanced than you imagine, and a lot closer to being a reality than many think. And like @gimpyshotrods said, proving to be a safer option than us mere humans.............

 

So we don`t have any blue collar workers because they can make 300 K a year coding. I don`t think that is the answer to the OP`s question. I think it is because right now in our economy, people that are in the working force are not able to keep up with the buying public demand. It is a nation wide problem. Not with just welders or coders. It`s in all facets of the industry. From workers at Wal - Mart to guys fixing broken cars. Their is a labor shortage right now due to parts of the country being shut down, yet people still getting paid with bonuses to boot. The problem will resolve itself, but it might take some time. Get off your asses and get to work. Put down the damm phone. Be polite and offer thankfulness every time you see someone doing a good job. And as a paying customer, tip those who are on the lower payscale. They will be thankful for it. My average work week for the last 12 months has been 50 to 60 hours a week. Yet my work load has increased that I can not keep up. Until a major recession happens, I see no ending of this problem. Working extra hours means more money for me-- right. Wrong. Just more expenses in my life right now. Not due to being in debt.

 

I sent you a message containing my response to your comment as I think it would probably be taken as political but it’s much more basic than that.

 

Not political at all, and not meant to offend..............
And I can see why you would want to be able to keep driving............nice ride.

 

Thanks

 

Funny how these posts seem to drift in totally different directions!!
I love it!
Really learn a lot...wayyyy better than vegging in front of the TV(although this sorta like a TV!)
6sally6

 

Here’s a thing I wrote (full of stats and sources) about the myth of the skills gap: https://www.thefabricator.com/thefa...cturing-is-facing-a-wage-gap-not-a-skills-gap

 

I have a nephew about 22 or so. Went to lineman school for a few months and had jobs waiting for him all over the US. Pays more in income tax than I make.

 

Are you saying he became a Journeyman lineman in several months.? The apprenticeship is normally 3-4 years...

 

Not a journeyman but gets all the hours he wants.

 

This is part of the problem. The notion that working a million hours and getting lots of money to do it is the same as getting paid well. It is not.

 

The same thing with a body man their wages per job has fallen in the last 40 years in 1980 the door was $22.00 per hour and the body man got $11.00. He got paid a average of 20 hours for putting a 1/4 panel which equals $242.00 for the job. Same job today pays 10 hours with included operations at $18.00 which equals $180.00. The body man has LOST $62..00 for doing the same job. He basically uses the same skill set and the same tools but now uses a spot welder instead of a MIG welder and gets less. Thats why they are always looking for TECH. You can thank your insurance Co. for this. They are only going to pay a set amount . Cost divided by the Door rate = the hours paid.

 

there's a guy in Harlan Iowa that is building a new shop to build hot rods and restore cars. Going to be interesting to watch how this plays out. I wish him luck.

 

What @jdustu posted is a good read and something I’ve been saying for a long time.

take my folks for example , my dad was a maintenance/ janitor for a large produce warehouse in Toronto , my mom was a full time cashier at a grocery store.

we lived in a nice house, 2 cars. Vacation trailer in myrtle beach they shared with another couple and retired at 50 and 55 !!

my mom made 40-50 grand a year my dad mid 70’s
My dad worked a minimum of 12 hours a day, most days 16 worked all statutory holidays etc etc.

both worked for union companies with health benefits and pension plans.

me and my brother where not spoiled but we where not lacking anything compared to our friends either. Mom and dad instilled a strong work ethic in both of us.


Anyways. My point is. What they where making in the 80’s and mid 90’s is STILL considered good money !!!!!

when groceries and bills are 20x what they where a house worth 200,000 grand back then is wayyyyy north of a million closer to 2 mil !!

had a bunch of apprentices in automotive nail when they would get paid minimum wage, told to buy a crap ton of tools and be treated like bottom feeders for 4-5 years . Most left within the first year as they could get jobs paying way better in other “ non trade “ fields.


Anyways wages HAVE frozen in a lot of sectors for a very long time. But there is a huge gap in skilled trades brought on by the crappy pay .
I dunno North America as a whole is gonna be in a world of hurt if we don’t start building stuff again.

 

Testify, Brother.

 

So, let me get this straight. You really don't have employees, you have contractors who could care less about what they are writing code to build. If they never see the finished product, it's really nothing to them as long as they get paid. If they find another project that pays more, they will quit you in a heartbeat and, aside from a little hiccup in your operation until you replace the quitter, life will go on. I think Isaac Asimov wrote several stories about your corporation, only with another name.

 

Somehow its important for the code writers to get paid big bucks for what they do, but when it comes time to actually produce the experiments the code writers designed into functioning pieces of equipment, the people that actually run the machines that produce the product don't deserve to earn big money.

When there is no one capable of building the machines the code writers come up with, of what value will the code writer's work be? If those that value the ability of the guy writing a code don't come to an understanding that the people that have to make the parts, assemble the parts, set up the machines, and repair the machines after they were build are also important occupations, the amount of time the code writers value remains valuable is very limited.

Lots of people have been directed into code writing because it pays well. Most of those people are under 30. For the last 30 years, people that possess the ability to work with their hands have been looked down upon and discouraged because it is viewed as a low need occupation. As such, very few people have entered those work positions. The people still working in those occupations are mostly in their 50s-70s. When the current group of people in the hands on occupations retire or die off, there is going to be a serious shortage of people capable of building the equipment the code writers design. That soon to come shortage is upon us now and is going to deteriorate as time moves forward from here.

The value placed on the people that can work with their hands to build and repair stuff really needs to get up to the level of the guys writing codes, and it needs to happen pretty fast. At some point the people will figure out there really is a need for the hands on workers, and an increase in their pay is the only thing to get people turned in that direction. My only hope is that by the time the people come to that understanding, there are still experienced people that can teach the new comers. Most of that stuff isn't learned from a book, its learned from hands on experience. Gene

 

No, they are full-time employees, with full-benefits. We pay them enough that they do not leave. That is how a functional job market work.

We have already finished four-generations of product, are deploying the fifth now, while working on the sixth and seventh. Each operational generation, as they overlap, gets rolling updates, until they are retired.

Please don't lecture me on this business model. You clearly don't understand it.

 

I build the hardware, Gene. Do you really want to know how much I make? Do you really want to know the hourly rate of my average coworker?

 

So..... code writing for automobiles, eh? Can I please have about a half hour with the dim witted code writer/programmer that did the "infotainment" system in my wife's GMC? As much as the "computer engineers" of the world want us to think otherwise, everything they do is experimental. What a welder, plumber or electrician does is subject to inspection, proof and standards. If a plumber screws up your water system, he is liable for the fix; if a computer wiz-bang screws up your car's electronic system, tough luck, it's because you did something wrong, messed with the programming, or farted wrong. As a throw-away consumer society, we've been brainwashed to accept inferior products with no accountability. Big dollar incomes don't impress me, quality workmanship and results do.
Incidentally, thanks to our tax structure, corporations spending money on R & D are spending TAXPAYER dollars (through tax breaks) to develop the latest technologies to jamb down our throats. 2200 code writers burning through 1 BILLION dollars!?!? WTF??