Anyone here build a engine for there ride to run exclusively on E-85????I have been doing some research and it seems to be a very doable deal, with great performance....I have lots of e-85 filling stations in my area, and the region in which the car will operate..so that is not an issue...and I know about the no rubber in the fuel system...was just wondering if anyone else has jumped on this 105 octane fuel...that is normally cheaper than reg. gas.....Shawn
Yes sir, I built my 426 Hemi for E85 only. I can't believe all the misconceptions about this fuel. It's nearly ideal as a hot rod fuel. High octane, runs cooler than gas, allows more power production & saves the planet (HA!). I haven't run mine long, but the results are encouraging. You need about 1/3 more fuel flow. It does absorb water, which causes ethanol/gas separation, so storage over time can be an issue. You only see real benefit if the motor needs and can use the octane. High compression or boost. Then this stuff is the bomb. Get a pro converted carb(s).
As mohr said, if you need the octane it's a great alternative ...other than the issue of using a foodstock like corn to make it vs junk organic like switchgrass. On boosted motors it allows you to run relatively high boost comparable to C16, and advanced timing, plus with the increased exhaust flow it spools up turbos pretty nice compared to gasoline.
I was planning on doing this a number of years ago, but the motor I had slated for the project burned up in a shop fire. Anyways, I say Go For It, and post your build here on the HAMB so others can follow along. Politics aside, and as already stated, there are some big advantages to building a motor to run on E85. High Compression is the biggest. 13:1 E85 motors are very doable, and I have heard of guys going as high as 15:1. And since the compression ratio is the biggest factor in determining an engines overall efficiency, you will more than make up for what you loose by running a fuel with less BTU's/lb. Holley makes a 4 bbl carb that is set up for E85, bigger jets, better gaskets, etc. Also, E85 will require quite a bit more advance in the timing because of the slower burn rate. Good Luck
Thanks guys....The vehicle is OT for this forum , but the engine is not....SBC...am intending on building 12-13 to one motor for a street /strip car..I do have some experience with this fuel, just not a lot, or street driven...I know it likes LOTS of timing..last motor I ran on it was 42 degrees...I figured a set of KB claimer pistons, a set of I beam rods, cast crank , and a good set of heads, and a purpose built Carb for E-85..and a cam that comes on strong from 3000 & up...Should be good for 450-500HP. I have a cousin that tunes 2 stroke twins, and he LOVES e-85..says it was a 10% HP increase , and a good amount of Tq. too....He has run several motors on his dyno , with gas for a baseline & the E-85 for comparison and the 10 5 number keeps pretty constant...Shawn
haven't done it yet but it's something we will most likely have to look into if we intend to keep on driving our rigs with older engines. Who's to know after you make the changes as there wouldn't be any visible outside changes. We do have one chain of stations here that is still ethanol free and that is where many of the boaters and hot rodders in the area buy gas. The biggest issue now is in the components in the fuel system. I met a gent at a marina that I was visiting last August who was at the marina with his 32 Packard cabriolet to get ethanol free gas (not cheap at marina prices) for the Packard. He said that the ethanol had already eaten up the inside rubber pieces in the fuel pump and messed with the carb previously. He also lives in one of the hard core "green" areas of our state where you aren't going to find non ethanol gas for the road.
Small engines love the E85 as well. At work, we took a turbo charged 1100 cc twin a couple of years ago and set it up on the dyno with E85. On pump gas, this motor leaves the factory at 178 hp. With E85, we started putting more and more boost to it and playing with the fuel and timing maps. We stopped at 290 Hp, thinking that the bottom end probably couldn't take much more. E85 is great fuel for a motor that is DESIGNED for it. I think alot of its bad rap comes from people running it in engines designed to burn gas.
A few racers around here run it, its cheap, good octane rating, and the corner gas station carries it. But, unlike the methanol we run[$1.85/gallon] it smells awful to me. Still, a good choice instead of expensive race gas. The VP nitrous specific fuel we used to run, called C 23,is $18/gallon in a 55 drum.
I did it. Had a 13.5 to one 505 Cu In 440 in my old mans 50 Chrysler. It was great made 550 HP on the dyno. Problem for us was the local gas station chain that sold E 85 filed for bankruptcy. It sucks living next to and across from corn fields and having to drive 20 or so miles to get fuel.
I'm not a big fan of it for the same reasons as straight alcohol. You use about twice as much and it washes the cylinder walls causing premature engine failure.
Hmmmmmmmmm..now why didn't I think of this? I've built an old Pontiac V/8 for my 34 ford coupe project with pop-up, Jahns pistons [came to that way and pistons are impossible to find for this old 50s engine] and I was wondering what the hell to do about it..E-85! It's sold locally! I still have my fuel system to build..have a new stainless tank, old Carter AFB carbs in a dual quad configuration...damn, I may even be able to run the pair with existing [or close to] jetting. This fuel would solve a lot of problems as long as I can find the fuel as I travel. I'm building this car to actaully drive..on trips! I drive the shit outta my cars. My tank is 27.36 gallons. That'll help too.
From what I have seen from the guys running it you have to jet up... Burn significantly more e 85 fuel then gas.. But damn good way run a rowdy engine on the street with pump gas. The OT guys are making crazy power on this pump gas but have to run really big injectors and fuel pump. Lets take advantage of the octane Sent from my DROID device using the TJJ mobile app
Yeah, Jeff...that's what I'm talkin 'bout. Both my carbs are calibrated to run 389 cu in with a single carb. Running Two of them should be a starting place to begin tuning, I'd think..
How much does the MPG suck vs the same engine on gas? I've hear 20 percent less from some folks. I've considered using an E-85 donor motor from a newer car but running it primarily on gas. The E-85 / multifuel capability would pretty much be a reserve feature, used only if I happened to be some place where no gas was available. Worth the effort? Or are the fuels so dissimilar that the tune would be way off when using gas? Gary
Fuel mileage on my O/T chevy HHR panel changes from an average [on the interstates] of 28-29 with ethanol [10% alcohol] to 22-23 with E-85. I trust the car's computer to change it's delivery of fuel to the engine to best suit the needs of my engine and feel the "jetting" is right-on for both fuels so I trust these numbers. Don't know what mileage I'd get with straight gasoline with no alcohol. That said, I feel an engine with a higher compression than my puny 2.2 litre [8-9 to one compression] would get more performance per gallon. I don't feel my late model, low compression HHR engine takes full advantage of the benefits of using E-85. A higher compression engine would get more benefit and higher MPG I think.
Rocky, Not to hijack... but I liked your response, informative and timely for me as a turbocharged Ecotec like I have in my HHR SS is my number one engine choice for my Model A. If I could get the same turbo / cams / ecu / whatever from the SS to work on an HHR E-85, I think it could be a cool deal. PM me ifn you want to take this off thread, Gary
Rocky is dead on , low compression gasoline engines are not using the fuel properly. This is the kinda thread I would expect on the hamb, I plan to build all my future engines to be alcohol burners, no matter the proof.
"Rocky, Not to hijack... but I liked your response, informative and timely for me as a turbocharged Ecotec like I have in my HHR SS is my number one engine choice for my Model A. If I could get the same turbo / cams / ecu / whatever from the SS to work on an HHR E-85, I think it could be a cool deal. PM me ifn you want to take this off thread, Gary" . . . Actually, I highjacked Shawn's post...sorry, man... Can't imagine a factory built turbocharged engine that WOULDN'T use E-85...that's just crazy to me.
@Rocky don't get cheap regarding the fuel system. E85 is very aggressive about drying out rubber and corroding metal. But that isn't the most important reason. It is very critical that you get the air/fuel ratio correct. Too little fuel is disaster, but too much will wash down your cylinders. I have spent the extra money and went directly to Quick Fuel. They have trained consultants that can design the fuel system to fit the specs of your engine. Even after that, you should take the car to a chassis dyno and do the final tuning. Monitoring air/fuel is critical. My last E85 engine ran a Quick Fuel designed system. When we checked it on the dyno, it was still 8 jet sizes too lean. Under WOT, that could have been meltdown.
Chevrolet built this Hot Rod a few years back, it runs E85. It was here at the Iowa Speedway when the Power Tour started from there a couple of years ago.
I get a "kick" out of the whole "E-85" deal.... Hell yes it works well... We were playing with this by adding methanol to gasoline when unleaded gas first came out.. in the 1970's... as a 'power adder' of sorts..... Ran it in racing 2-strokes... WATCH THE JETTING!!!
I have experience with engines dedicated to e-85. I switched my off topic "cam only" ls1 Camaro to e-85. I upgraded entire fuel system to handle e-85 and only picked up 3hp over pump gas (91octane). 440hp on E and 437hp on 91 at 7200rpm thru a 4l60e and 4400 tci stall converter. I converted to e-85 when it was half the price of pump gas. Now in Oklahoma e-85 is only about 20 cents cheaper. I wouldn't make the switch again unless it I was running a high compression or boosted application. With those two variables e-85 is blessing! I only ran AMS oil and I changed it VERY often because the e-85 was contaminating the oil very quickly. I would look like chocolate milk when drained. Another thing, my off topic Camaro burned to the ground while I was driving it. It appears that the injector seal failed on cylinder number 1 which caused the injector to blow out of the intake and spray e-85 all over the engine causing an uncontrollable fire....Maybe the seal was damaged from being removed a few times, or maybe the ethenol corroded it and the 2 in tank fuel pumps supplied to much pressure for a corroded seal to handle....who knows.. -Charlie
I thought it was a missed point so I was going to mention the extra attention needed for oil changes but 4psi just mentioned it in the above post. Also, some oils are better suited to engines running E85 but I've not researched which are best.
I never had any problem at all with AMS oil. Before it was dialed in it would see 7600 rpms and I never had any signs of wear or any problems what so ever. Keep in mind the car I am referring to was not daily driven at all, and the oil was changed about ever 15 passes. If there is a better suited oil that I could have been using I would like to know. The chocolate milk oil always concerned me. lol
Nice looking poncho... to run E-85 you will need to be about 20 percent richer. A carb isnt really jetted for the amount of carbs your running, they are jetted for the air/ fuel ratio. You are still going to need to jet the carbs up quite a bit. I say get your fuel system alcohol combatable. Any one running higher compression, this should be a no brainer. Without high compression or boost, it just doesnt pay any benifits.
LS motors out gun the old tech with high static compression. 500 horse is cake on a stock block with upgraded cam and springs. mill the heads for cheap compression, e85 will love it. I mean, if you want to take advantage of what is out there, why leave power on the table? Anyways, continue this conversation where it belongs. http://www.e85performance.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=9
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