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Technical Hop up mods for 1928 Hudson Super Six?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by kiwijeff, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,010

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    fleet-master asks an interesting question. Do they have vinyl tops where you live? How long do they last?

    Around here they were big in the late sixties, seventies and eighties. Seldom seen anymore. Lasted about 10 years on a car left out in all weathers. Longer if the car was garaged. There are still 60s 70s and 80s cars with their original tops in good condition.


    Keep in mind, the fabric covering can be replaced in a day. It used to take an hour or 2 to fit a new vinyl top, this was done by glass shops. When I worked in body shops years ago it was common to repaint a car and take it in for a new vinyl top or in some cases, repair a roof where it leaked and rusted through, then get the top replaced.

    It would be easier and cheaper than repainting a car. How long does a paint job last if the car is never garaged, washed or waxed?
     
  2. Just watched the vid. Wish i had bigger screen instead of my phone. I have a mate with a 28 Chev roadster, and hes just put a new vynal top on it. Not sure how many others here have em, but i will ask. As to paint, i guess it depends on pigment quality, but my jap driver lives outside, and after 3 years, is definatley looking a little sad.
     
  3. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,010

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Your climate is harsher than ours then. Typical Japanese car doesn't start looking shabby till 10 or 15 years have gone by.
     
  4. Living by the sea, at the edge of a rain forrest can certanly make for harsh conditions. Heres a phone pic of my spare G box. Its a 26, and came off my spare 29 engine. This engine was used as a welder up in Motueka for years. Check out the size of the clutch.
     

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  5. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,010

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Multi plate clutch. Hudson was famous for their oil bath, cork lined clutches. Did not know they made a multi plate design like that. Looks like something out of a ten ton truck.
     
  6. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,133

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hey, KJ;

    Dope = hemp: not this time.

    Took me 20 yrs to figure out that dope had more than 2 meanings, since I didn't run w/that type of crowd. I should've not been surprised that there weren't that many people into gas-powered flying model airplanes... :D . & you sure-as-hell *don't* want to get *any* flame around this stuff, until it dries.

    Dope has been used in the aircraft industry since 1900's. It is applied, after using water on the silk/silkspan covering to do the initial shrink. The dope further shrinks the covering, gets rather hard, but not brittle, & fills in the pores in the covering. Usually multiple coats are needed(2-3 usually). Look up hobby aircraft, homebuilt aircraft, experimental aircraft, or Aircraft Tool Supply Co. Should be a good start.

    Something similar is used in the flying model aircraft hobby. Both U-Control, & R.C.
    Stuff contains Toluol & Tricresyl Phosphate & Methyl Ethyl Ketone. Be careful.
    Colors in the Hot Fuel Proof Dope seem to last pretty well, including under the sun, etc., since hot fuel contains Nitro, & methanol, among other things usually useful in paint removal. :D . It's traditionally applied w/a brush, although can be sprayed. Flows out well, but sets *very* quick. Might be a bit pricey to do a car, but not as much as bc/cc.
    Pactra makes a good H.F.P.Dope

    Model & real (full scale) aircraft kits would give you a nice idea of how to do the skeleton, if you're not sure.

    HTH.

    Marcus...
     
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  7. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,010

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Here are some pics of a roadster body made the way I described. Scroll down to post # 13 in the thread.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782981

    The builder talks of covering it with Kevlar.

    Have also heard of using indoor outdoor carpet for padding, then vinyl top material over that.
     
    kiwijeff likes this.
  8. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Marcus, i had flashbacks to Cheech and Chongs van. Lol. Rusty, the clutch sure is interesting, and its in great condition. The body in the link looks very interesting, and exactly as id imagined, after your description. Theres some good info coming out here. Today, im plan to pull cowl off, and finish taking running board brackets off chassis. I have left side done. They are hot rivited on, and it takes some work to remove them.
     
  9. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,133

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    Hey, KJ;

    On hotrodding the old Hudson, I wouldn't be afraid of running the old babbit system. IF the babbit was in good shape(no cracks) & proper clearances. After all, that's just about all they had for about 30+(?) yrs, racers included. If not, you'll have to get it re-poured & clearanced. Cross-drilling the crank can't hurt. Neither can running a decent oil pump, although Hudson used dippers through all of their flathead 6s. I think that porting can help & will be worth it. Probably better quality valves - say stainless(?), & boost is an easy option. Turbos would work well, if sized correctly, what you want is useable low-rpm boost, not the hi-rpm fluff version. 6psi should be easy for the mill to handle. Not for racing, but for street fun. A stock cam would work here, but adding a little more lift would help.

    You could always make your own blower, using a very large turbo = belt drive turbo. Or a smaller impeller by Toro - believe it or not. Doesn't work well w/large engines (& also depends on engine rpm), but some creative fins added to a turbo housing, & you could replicate the 20's-30's look. Unfortunately, the books on DIY belt drive turbos are not in print anymore. :( . Example: gatorsuperchargers.net . (None of the books shown/mentioned are in print anymore). There are a couple of yahoo sites that still have some info on them. PM me iffen you're interested.

    Marcus...
     
  10. Thanks Marcus, something to think on. Ill PM u if i decide to go that route, but i got plenty to keep me busy for now. Got all my jobs done today, and then some. Rearranged the shed, and organised my spare parts. Relised after getting right side running board mounts off, that all the old body mounts now have to come off to. Had a cutting disc blow apart and got me in inner thigh. Swear words happened, but no broken skin.
     
  11. This is kinda turning into a build thread. Thanks to iwanaflattie, im leaning more towards a steel body, after reading his wooden buck thread. Still undecided which direction to go, but i like the idea of solid steel more. Got a little done yesterday, but the nieghbours were all home, and i didnt want to piss em off with hours of grinder noise. Heres a couple of pics. The car was used as a stock car for one race, and was shunted in the bum, so chassis needs a little work. Nothing major, a little striaghtning, and a few holes need filling.
     

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  12. captainjunk#2
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,339

    captainjunk#2
    Member

    wow i like the way that engine looks , perfect speedster material ,
     
    kiwijeff likes this.
  13. Its cool aint it, Captjunk. So cool that id hate to cover it with a hood/bonnet. This engine needs to be seen. Lol.
     
  14. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,231

    oj
    Member

    Damnifno, its' a Hudson! Heres' a couple pics of the car.
     

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    kiwijeff likes this.
  15. Thanks Oj. Figured it to be a 50s something Hudson, with what looks like a turbo (can i say turbo on here? Lol.) on a flathead Hudson 6. Mines an F head, with a cool factory alloy rocker cover.
     
  16. speedster2013
    Joined: Mar 10, 2013
    Posts: 1

    speedster2013
    Member
    from oregon

    How About Propane Carbs ? You Can Use 1 Large Carb, Or 2 to 3 Smaller Carbs. Can Be Mounted As Updraft, Down Draft, Side Draft. No Float Bowls.Runs On Any Angle,Used On Many Rock Crawer Trucks. Carbs Are Altitude Compensating. Carbs Can Be Used With Turbos/ Blowers. 100 to 110 Octane Fuel. It's Hard To Over Carb. Fuel Cost Aprox $1.79 To $2.79 A Gal. Can Use Fork Lift Fuel Tanks.:)
     
  17. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,911

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    I believe the Bently body was made of leather not fabric. The aircraft style of closing wings and fuselages with stiffened fabric is pretty much a lost art. But lots of coach made automotive bodies were fabric over a buck and lathe type assembly. In the late 30's, my father made an Ice Boat (model A Powered with a hand made propeller) and bobsled type of body was made of wood salvaged from fruit box slats, canvas, leather lacing, and home made stiffening dope. It held up well into the 60's when he sold it to a guy who replaced the fabric with aluminum.
     
  18. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,010

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    There was quite a vogue for fabric bodies in the twenties especially in Europe. A few were built as late as the mid 30s. So far as I know all were covered with an artificial leather type material made for the purpose. Some had a texture like the tops on old cars, some had a smooth dull finish, there was also a shiny patent leather type material. Most were made of the smooth dull material as seen on the Bentley. This had a durable finish, more durable than the paint they had back then. It could be washed or wiped clean with a damp rag and did not show scratches. It did not require polishing or waxing like paint, although there were special dressings available to preserve it.
     
  19. Rusty, everytime i read your replies, i get keen on fabric. Still rather do steel, but it may not get that far. If someone wants it more than me, ill sell it.
     
  20. Here's an idea, get yourself a '46 to '48 Hudson hood and use it as a boat tail- I've been wanting to do this for years, but it would be perfect for your car!!!
     
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  21. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,010

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    If you have the wherewithal to build a steel body that is great. To me the advantage of the fabric body is. Period correct, light weight, easy to build, no painting. The steel body would be more like a real car.
     
    kiwijeff likes this.
  22. Here's the hood I'm talking about- if you find one, you won't have too much body fab to worry about!
     

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    kiwijeff likes this.
  23. Mac, i had thought about using a 40ish Ford, and saw a 38 Deluxe hood for sale. Almost brought it too, but a Hudson one would be way cool. Rusty, next stage for body will be to measure up body and draw some plans. Did a lot of work with a finishing disc today, and comitted a car crime. Or it would be if i wasnt a hot rodder. I cut up a sideplate off the 29 engine, for the embossed word, Hudson. Ive no idea where ill put it, but it,ll end up on the hot rod somewhere.
     
  24. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,234

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    Body suggestion from the distant past(broke-butt '50's era road-racers): frame out the desired body form with thin-wall conduit ribs & stringers, cover the conduit with large mesh chicken-wire in the desired shape,then do a paper-mache out of newspaper(yes-recycling newspaper is good & WAY cheap!!!) Inter-weave the initial layers through the chicken-wire mesh & then lay the final layers on flat. When the proper shape & thickness is reached & allowed to "cure"(dry) then paint it with water-base concrete floor paint. One advantage is that after an accident it's easy to repair. These R-R guys were into appearance & this was a fast & cheap way to keep the "looks Police"(read:'tech- inspecters') happy. I haven't seen one of these for a long time, but when broke,"cheap" still applies. They were probably replaced with fiberglass when lightweight & relatively inexpensive bodies were developed in the late '50's/early '60's. On a simular thought, if one used resin instead of paste, then the newspaper would be a cheap replacement for glass-matte, & the resin would make it stronger. After you guys quit laughing, how 'bout posting YOUR ideas &/or memories from the 'stone-age'?
     
  25. Theres some great stuff coming out here, thanks again to all who have contributed so far. Im going to throw up the pics of yesterdays car crime. That'll get rid of the purusts, lol. Sorry if it offends anyone... No im not, this is a hot rod forum afterall. :D:D:D
     

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  26. QUIZ TIME, can anyone ID the rocker cover on the right? The left one is 28 or 29 Hudson Super Six, with oilers missing, and the left one is shorter, and more squarish, with oilers. Good question for the purists, who ive just scared off. Lol.
     

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  27. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    fleet-master
    Member

    Mac that Hudson hood would make an awesome start for a boat-tail. ...hmm I've got a spare Fleetmaster hood here....
     
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  28. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,768

    fleet-master
    Member

    what about a fibre Willys bonnet...oops i mean hood :D:D or an MGB bonnet would give you a nice sloping compound curve rear section, you could even hinge it and have a regular boot.Wouldn't be too hard to match rear guards up to either I reckon..
     
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  29. GlenC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 757

    GlenC
    Member

    Jeff, for your carbies, why not track down 2 or 3 old style SU's from 50's Jaguars or other English cars? The big ones, 2" or even 2 1/4" ones with separate float bowls. They'll look very Bentley-ish hanging off the side of the engine, and would suit the period you're aiming for.

    Cheers, Glen.
     
    kiwijeff likes this.
  30. Fleet-master, im keeping my options open, that ol chevy hood could work, and id definatly use hinges. Id need the room to put things. Glen, great idea, it would look bitchn. Maybe not period correct, but i never said it was going to be true to any speclfic period. Funny thing, while doing a ton of research on this era Hudson, i read heaps of info on using more modern parts on your stocker Hudson, to make em more user friendly. These articles were written by the restorers, and purists. Does that mean Hudson people are really hot rodders in denial?
     

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