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Hot Rods Heritage Gas: Traditional Gasser Classes and Racing

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Don Moyer, Jul 18, 2017.

?

do you have any interest in Heritage Gas

Poll closed Aug 17, 2017.
  1. yes

    54 vote(s)
    55.7%
  2. no

    43 vote(s)
    44.3%
  1. Ok so we used the 1965 Rule book basically because it keeps guys from putting 400 lbs of batteries in the trunk. Also if you were building a car in 1964 you would be building it for 1965. Agree on the later 327 block, the 350 block may be the same but makes the tech job harder. We are not tearing down motors, that is crazy for a trophy class. I love your "Spirit of the Rules" idea and it really is covered in the rules allowing re production parts that are identical to the original 1964 stuff, so your Top Loader is an fine example. For the 9 inch ford Rear end, you are correct in that one can take a same size 9 inch and have it made to the width of say a 1959 Ford. We just don't want the pro street look. Thank you sir!
     
    els, loudbang and hotroddon like this.
  2. Policing internal parts is impossible you are correct. All we can do is make the rules and enforce if the infraction comes to light. If the part is exactly the same as the 1964 date code, then it can be used. Remember fellas, this is just one class, our events still have less lenient Nostalgia Gas and Competition Gas.
     
    quicksilverart46, els and loudbang like this.
  3. Thank you! It will take time I am sure.
     
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  4. F/X is cool too! If you change your mind remember there are lots of options on what type of gasser to build, not just this class.
     
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  5. This is what I am trying to accomplish! Heritage Gas is for those that want the period correct experience, Nostalgia Gas is the look with some modern upgrades, and Competition Gas is the very competitive class that allows many modern upgrades. We are sanctioning these classes at all events in the future to try to fix the fragmentation that is out there. We are not a group, just a magazine and a website with passion for all things gasser. Your vision is a good one and I hope that in time you get that spirit going again and we line up next to each other!
     
  6. I think the pro street look is not going to be an issue with the ten inch wheel limit and pie crust slicks as your rules already state. The date code idea is an interesting one, but may turn off many potential racers. Perhaps stating OEM blocks, heads and transmissions available in 1964 would simplify things a bit and attract a larger group?
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  7. No a stock frame width will limit the axle width. That's the way it was back then.
    As long as the casting number falls in the right size motor I see no reason to limit the year it was made.
    I can afford a $600 T10 but a $3500 trans is not what they used back then also I'd do away with water burn outs and prepped tracks if you want the true experience.
    Like I said I really like this idea maybe just a little bit of leniency.
     
    els, 31hotrodguy and loudbang like this.
  8. I guess, but isn't that the same thing. I used the term date code to clarify use stuff from 1964 and earlier. I am really surprised on the comments on the date code, or use of vintage mills, but no comments on the speed parts to be used! So maybe your right!
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  9. We are on the same page. The prepped track is a tough one as we will also be running the other classes. If it gets big enough to stand alone, yes no prepped track would be the ideal experience!
     
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  10. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,475

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    OK I think you have spotted a trend with the Southeast Gassers and Quain Stott, and now you want to jump on the wagon with something just a little bit different so you won't be called a copy cat, which you are. All those rules concerning correct internals in engines are unenforceable without a massive tech inspection crew.
    I think I can sum it up in saying you are totally transparent in your efforts to copy the SE Gassers.
     
    els, Tman, seadog and 1 other person like this.
  11. Your entitled to your opinion. I think if you dig in to my past, you will see I have been at this for some time. I don't care about trends. I do care that Gasser racing stays healthy and that Drag Strip owners make alot of money so we have places to play. I do see a surge in popularity of vintage racing, which this is. I was especially motivated by the Jalopy Showdown and Race of Gentlemen, so if you want to call me a copycat, those events are what has motivated me. I believe that most/all of the SEGA cars would not qualify to run in Heritage Gas. However, unlike most groups, who leave cars out that don't fit their "vision" , we have 3 different classes to cater to all gassers. If it can't race at our event, then it probably by definition is not a gasser or won't pass tech.
     
    quicksilverart46, els and loudbang like this.
  12. Don, First of all , don't get me wrong . I can sympathize with any promoter doing what you're trying to do .
    It's like herding cats out there, for sure.
    Let me ask you this:
    Do you know of one (1) car in the country that can adhere to your rules above? One that will go out there and rev it up and dump the clutch like Ralph Ridgeway , Harry Luzader, and Ferd Napfel used to do in 1965?
    Let's start there...
     
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  13. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,845

    wrenchbender
    Member

    Hi don I'm gonna put my 2 cents in here for what it's worth I like what you are planning on doin here those that get it won't have much of an issue with it however I wonder about speed parts even though 6-71 blowers were used there was just as many 4-71 and intakes for them are pretty scarce these days so what kinda restrictions are gonna be on speed parts and what about homebuilt parts for instance my 40 willys pickup is getting a 390 Cadillac with a 6-71 blower and hilborn 4-port I have to fabricate the intake and lots of other parts to make it happen is that kind of thing allowed also as far as the pie crust tires I run them on both my willys and my dragster not sure if you know or not but the meltdown crew is starting a pie crust only event and I think their thoughts and yours line up real well I was fortunate to be selected to run in the inaugural event last weekend at the meltdown in their event there is no burnout just line up at run what ya brung I think a lot of folks get all worried about numbers and date codes but there were a lot of other engines that was used besides a small block chevy and I think a lot of power can be had by using other power plants like pontiacs and olds and like me even caddies fe fords and big wedge Chryslers now with that being said cubic inches should be limited however that is gonna be hard to do cost is a factor in anything we do so with that being said I do believe a fairly good running car could be put together fairly reasonable if a person gets away from the internet and digs back into the old days with using your thinking cap that's what was done back then not every gas class racer had big sponsors like the big name racers so they were trying lots of things that era of drag racing was very innovative and I for one really like the aspect of innovation and I think if we all think outside the catalog and internet lots of good things can come from what you are trying to do hope I made some sense and I will be following along to see where this leads and maybe I can line up next to you in the future


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  14. 0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Joined: Nov 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,144

    0NE BAD 51 MERC
    Member

    The term Gasser has been used to describe so many different different styles over the years. The term started out as a nick name of sorts for the gas coupe, sedan and roadster classes of the late 50s and early 60's. When you say 1964/65 are you talking class legal gas coupe and sedans or Stone ,Woods and Cook, Big John or Ks Pittman Match race only cars which where not Gas class legal cars ?
     
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  15. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 7,972

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Seems a nerve has been struck. For those with the Stones to go for it, the "Wood" to see it through and the will to Cook one up this might open a venue that's worthy. IHRA had a door class that was big block cars with no tubs and full interiors, something similar to early Pro Stock but I think enough limits to keep it in the high 9s or low 10-0s. An exciting class to watch if you knew what it was about but it faded away rather quickly. Like any venue with stringent rules it takes a pretty heavy group of like-minded enthusiasts to give it life and longevity. In all reality I see it relaxing the rules enough to be able to actually build a full field of cars to compete. I understand different classes available and this gig for the true gasser purist, and again as devil's advocate how many true believers are out there? I also get that it shouldn't end up full of dopey looking tippy straight axle posers running mid 13s. Personally I'm in the hot dog line when they show up. Not knocking their fun but it's just not a big draw or something capable of a reasonable payday for a winner either. Do I think you're onto something? Sure do, and I can also read the unspoken desire to get as close as possible to the real thing. Once the initial growing pains are worked out and y'all find out what really matters to fans and promoters things like date codes and deep tech will take a back seat, temporary or permanent. Example; virtually all Pontiac blocks and heads looked the same for decades whether it be a 326 or a 455. SBCs of course though the mid 80s, same/same, and early/mid 60s Cadillacs from the 63 390 to the 67 429. FE Ford stuff needs no explaination. Who wouldn't love to see balls big enough to flog a 427 SOHC motor on a no prep track? Ohio George did it. At the end of it all I'm rootin for ya. Hope to see annual events nationwide.
     
    els, 31hotrodguy, Don Moyer and 2 others like this.
  16. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,044

    wvenfield
    Member

    The SE Gassers do a great job, the only problem is they are SE. Don is NE, so copy away, I can make it to the Ohio tracks. Do it however......I'll attend regularly when I only have to travel 2-3.5 hours. My car is a bit of a mutt. Parts from 56-73 off the top of my head. and who knows....maybe it will fit somewhere. I'll be there either way.
     
  17. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 2,882

    jimdillon
    Member

    To say that this is copying the Southeast Gassers is utter nonsense. I consider Quain a friend and what he has done is really great. He has captured some of that genie in the bottle that some of us experienced firsthand back in the 60s. There were nostalgia gasser groups with written rules prior to Quain coming up with his “better” set of rules. As Quain has said he has lost a few friends over this whole deal but he has stuck to his guns and no one can argue with the results of where the SEG is today. Is what the SEG doing really as it was in 1967? To an extent yes but not all had straight axles and of course there were automatics etc etc. The four speeds manually shifted and antics of the straight axles though really do add to the show and Quain’s rules work well IMO.

    To anyone that knows Don (and I admittedly have never met him) he is the race director for Gasser Magazine. He probably lives gassers to an extent. As he stated he has other gasser classes that are already running in a few events and is trying to add to what he already has in place. Those other two classes are not as nostalgic in a sense as to what he is shooting for here. I for one am not a huge fan of promods with old car bodies so I like the concept of what he is trying to accomplish. When I attend events and see a “vintage drag car” with a wing that is what sends me to the concession stand. It is just me maybe but that shocks me back to reality from my trip back in time. I mentioned earlier that it will be interesting to see where it goes because I think some tweaks will be necessary to make it a reality.

    The concept is good overall and there is a large contingent of fans in the more northern states to support it I believe. I wish I could attend every SEG race but with work and all the other stuff of life, it is virtually impossible. Ohio tracks though are only a few hours away and I would be sure to attend those. Other tracks in area would be tempting as well and probably easier to attend.

    To enforce rules will be a bitch, but along the way Don may need more support than bitching if we want to enjoy some vintage racing along these lines in the future.
     
    powrshftr, Quain Stott, els and 4 others like this.
  18. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,507

    southcross2631
    Member

    I would love to be able to run in your new class you are looking into. My Morris Minor is a 1958 and they were available in the states in the early 50's. Maybe I need to build a Y-block hooked to an early toploader. Get rid of my 5.0 roller block. Jon Kaase made a bunch of power with a Y block.
    A 57 Ford rear is still way too wide for my car and it would be for an Anglia. I am running 9 inch wheels on the back and 28 x 9 tires.
    I remember seeing Anglia's running Toronado wheels on the back to narrow the tread width on their Old's rears.
    Don, are the other Gasser class rules posted somewhere ,so I can look at them? The circle track guys have to have a removable window in the oil pan to check for cheater rods.
    I admire what you are trying to accomplish here. Gonna be tough to pull off, but you have my vote.
    The hidden ballast was very much an issue back then . Diesel batteries, lead filled frame rails, false top fuel tanks with lead trays . Anything to get those old tires to hook on unprepped tracks.
     
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  19. old sparks
    Joined: Mar 12, 2012
    Posts: 414

    old sparks
    Member

    gonna be to pricey for the average joe limiting car count
     
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  20. rustednutz
    Joined: Nov 20, 2010
    Posts: 1,574

    rustednutz
    Member
    from tulsa, ok

    My biggest complaint with SEG rules is the manual tranny requirement. I'm getting older and the knees and hips don't work as well as they used to. Don, I admire what you are wanting to do and would be interested in seeing what your other Gas series rules are. My 39 Olds has a rectangular tubing frame,ladder bars on a 57 Ranchero 9" and coil over shocks. Brakes are later OEM 4 wheel discs, 52 Chevy truck front axle. Trans will be an automatic, engine probably a BBC with two fours. How would this fit in any series you are planning?
     
  21. Every "Period Correct" car I see out there right now is not able to run in this class., some are not far away tho. The 1937 Chevy I just sold would qualify right now! It is in Arizona for a restoration. My car for sure cannot! That is why I am starting this so early. Give folks time to get there stuff in order, if they desire to run this class. I will build a car for this class starting in the fall. I cannot emphasize this enough, this is just one class, we still have 2 other classes that cover all gassers out there!
     
  22. I can tell you get it. Home made parts may be allowable as long as techniques and technology are from 1964 or earlier. In other words, what the regular Joe could accomplish in his garage.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  23. Section IV Street Section, Gas Coupes/Sedans.
     
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  24. Nostalgia Gas is a fun class for sure, definitely the most popular! You get the look and relaxed rules, and modern slicks etc. Competition Gas is more of a modern race car in nostalgia trim, if that makes any sense. Our biggest rule on this class is how high/low the car sits. Gasser Madness and Gasser Magazine are not just local to Ohio (Gasser Country) but will book events where ever the interest takes us!
     
  25. I think it will be pricey to run the top classes, yes, but in heads up racing isn't that always the case? If rules are made to limit how fast a car is for it's class, that would be a form of bracket racing too. We will not do that. Build a car for a heavier class with a smaller engine and go after it. Will it be harder for some, maybe, but I was just at a swap meet and saw some pretty good deals on old stuff that fit this class that the serious racer wouldn't look twice at. Your just not going to be able to dial 1-800-catalog for some things in this class. Want car count and easier, we have those classes too.
     
    els likes this.
  26. Without seeing a picture for your ride height, sounds like your car would definitely fit our Nostalgia Gas class.
     
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  27. chevy57dude
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 5,398

    chevy57dude
    Member

    Don - are the Nostalgia Gas rules on your site? Could you post them here? I was unable to find them on it, but that doesn't mean a lot.. Seems like that's where I might fit. Thanks!
     
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  28. The website is under construction and will be completed this fall. We are going to edit some tweaks into our rules for the other two classes also. We are running a trial event at Rock'N'Race this year on Saturday night with true Gas Class heads up racing. I know the fans will love it, just going to see how the racers respond. The track paid pre-registered Gassers travel money for this event, should be interesting!
     
  29. Here is the brief rules for the event regarding gassers.


    Competition Gas

    Vehicles manufactured form 1927-1948. Traditional Gasser bodied cars that are low in stance. The rocker panel/lowest part of the vehicle body is below the centerline of the front spindle. Vehicles must be full fendered, have a roof, and hood top. Vehicle cannot be chopped/channeled more than 4 inches total. No motorcycles. This class will be handicap racing dial in to the nearest 10th on a handicap tree.

    Nostalgia Gas

    Vehicles manufactured from 1927-1967. Traditional Gasser bodied cars that have the nose high stance. The rocker panel/lowest part of the vehicle body is above the centerline of the front spindle. Vehicles must be full fendered, have a roof, and hood top. Vehicle cannot be chopped/channeled more than 4 inches. No Motorcycles. This class will be index racing with index listed below. Winners of each index will then be matched up closest to farthest, etc. The sportsman tree will be utilized for this class.

    A- 9.50

    B- 10.00

    C- 10.50

    D- 11.00

    E- 11.50

    F- 12.00

    G- 12.50

    H- 13.00

    Supercharged Nostalgia Gas

    Vehicles manufactured from 1927-1967. Traditional supercharged gassers. Vehicle should be nostalgic in appearance, and at least be level in stance with nose high preferred. All vehicles must be full fendered, have a roof, and a hood top. Vehicle cannot be chopped/channeled more than 4 inches total. No motorcycles. This class will be racing an 1/8 mile index of 5.6 seconds for safety reasons. The sportsman tree will be utilized for this class.
     
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  30. chevy57dude
    Joined: Dec 10, 2007
    Posts: 5,398

    chevy57dude
    Member

    Looks like I have to wait until my 6-71 project comes to fruition.
    The rocker is below the spindle centerline, so no for Nostalgia Gas but ok in Supercharged Gas if I understand correctly. How about the altered wheelbase? By no means am I calling my car anything, just interested in if and where it would fit when I am ready to race. IMG_20170709_194830330_HDR.jpg
     
    els, 31hotrodguy, enloe and 2 others like this.

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