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HEMI Tech- Transmission adapters, flywheels, starters

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. AndersF
    Joined: Feb 16, 2013
    Posts: 613

    AndersF
    Member

    I must admit that i dont have read all in this thread.
    But i use a Wilcap adapter on my build and thought i could
    put in how i did on my build.
    The pics and text is from my buildthread.
    I wanted to have a manual trans and know that wilcap
    have adapters for all common smallblocks.
    After some lookingaround i found a 3-speed from a Ford Mustang 66.
    So i ordered one kit from Hotheads for Ford sb.

    [​IMG]

    To reach in to mount the nuts on flywheel bolts i had to expand the hole.
    Later i hade to cut al the way down to reach.
    I am not worried about the streinght couse this is how the stock
    adapter used with automatic transmission is done.

    [​IMG]

    It was some different supportbearings included in the adapterkit but nothing i could use.
    This is just a mock up so i dont need it yet so i mounted it without.

    [​IMG]

    Checking the starterfitment. Looks good. I dont see any problems here.
    The mountinginstructions say the kit is ment to be used by a Mopar ministarter.
    I really hate the look of a ministarter and cant find any reason to not use a ordinary starter.

    [​IMG]

    The adapterkit was supposed to use Ford 10 inch clutchparts.
    So i buy me a 10 inch cluchkit that was listed from 65 to present to use thru ebay.
    I dont know if Ford have used different pressureplates during the years or
    if the flywheel is drilled for another pressureplate.
    ( The instructions says its drilled for Ford but on the first page
    its written that all kits is drilled for Chevy patterns.)
    Its some mixed info and i have wery little experience in Ford and Chevy stuff.
    But the one included did not fit the flywheel.
    Looking in my spareparts i had a pressureplate for Dodge 53 with 10 inch clutchdisc.
    And that one fits perfect.

    [​IMG]

    And then i looked on the clutchdisc and think it look close to my 53 Dodge to.
    So i get my centeringtool made of a inshaft for a Dodge gearbox and tested.
    It was a perfect match. With a sparedisc at home to i really didnt needed to buy
    any clutchparts at all.:D
    But i used the clutchdisc and the throwout bearing included.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    loudbang, Flagman71 and Thommyknocker like this.
  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,895

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    T56:
    [​IMG]
    Extended block 331, simple adapter from Wilcap (331 to Muncie), backed by a McLeod (Muncie to T56) adapter.
    [​IMG]
    If you want an AX15, you can get an intermediate adapter from Novak.
    [​IMG]
    Or have a machinist transfer that pattern to the Wilcap adapter.

    Since the 331 bell pattern is essentially SAE #3, a good machinist should be able to make the whole thing for you, whatever combo desired.

    Since mixed SAE and GM powertrain combos are not uncommon in the commercial/industrial world, you might look outside the hot rod world: http://www.phxgrp.com/gmpowertrain.htm

    If the mill behind me were bigger, I would just make one (just don't tell my boss).
     
    loudbang and Flagman71 like this.
  3. Flagman71
    Joined: Dec 12, 2015
    Posts: 8

    Flagman71
    Member

    The hyd bearing makes more sense to me when it is used in a factory setup like in the AX15 because the engineering and troubleshooting are generally solid with a lot of data. I'm afraid I would overpower a T5. So, I have skipped over the AX15 thread and will have to digest it. But, as usual, you are right on top of what looks like a promising solution for me. Do you make an adapter kit for an EB/AX?
     
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,895

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Just be aware, if going the AX15 route, they require 75W90 GL-3 not 75W90 GL-5.

    GL-5 is not good for the
    synchronizers. Since it is common in most auto parts stores and auto shops, assume that it has already been in there.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  5. Flagman71
    Joined: Dec 12, 2015
    Posts: 8

    Flagman71
    Member

    Great info, 73RR, AndersF and gimpy. I was aware of the GL-5 issue in the AX15, so will be checking synchro wear if I go that route. I'll keep you posted.
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,895

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    I buddy of mine who works in the marine world suggests looking at marine transmission adapters.

    They are missing the locating dowel holes, but those could be added.

    Not sure how thick they are, but there might be enough meat to become an adapter for an AX15.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    As Gimpy says, look around in addition to the Marine world. I also have seen some odd variants with the SAE-3 pattern and no dowel pin holes (since they are a Mopar addition) but have a 'ring' - ''step' - 'shoulder' (call it what you like), that centers on the ID of the block opening.

    The Novak piece is spendy but available....probably the same cost to have 'something' welded-up/modified.
    For those wondering about just how strong the AX15 is, consider that Novak went to the trouble of designing their adapter for the off-road/jeepster folks and they are not gentle on parts. The adapter shown above is for the shiverlay bellhousing.

    .
     
    1955haynes likes this.
  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,895

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    I beat the AX15 on a regular basis, on and off-road, for 265,000. Sold it in the spring. I still see it out there, going strong.
     
  9. HemiIn34
    Joined: Jul 11, 2011
    Posts: 39

    HemiIn34
    Member

    Hi all, I'm backing my '54 331 Chrysler Hemi (short-bellhousing) with a T700/4L60. Both Wilcap and Hot Heads have adapters. What's the better one to go with? I'm not fond of an alloy fly. So far I don't have a fly, starter or converter so all are needed to be bought. Cheers!
     
  10. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    ...what non-alloy material, exactly, would you like it to be made of???? Just curious of course......:confused:

    .
     
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  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,895

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Pure elemental Iron.
     
  12. flat-bill
    Joined: May 24, 2005
    Posts: 78

    flat-bill
    Member

    My adapter kit came from Hot Heads and it is the Wilcap setup. It hooks up the tko 600 to my Desoto motor. If I remember right the kit was cheaper from Hot Heads than directly from Wilcap. I got the Ford bellhousing adapter and I think it specified a 10.5 Mopar clutch.

    Billk
     
  13. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,126

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    if one wanted to go with a chevy 4 speed It looks like I would use a chevy bell housing but what about the flywheel?
    If it is a custom flywheel can one be had that is SFI rated?
     
  14. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    It will, of course, be a custom wheel. You are mixing an 8-bolt crank pattern with a 168 tooth ring gear. Mopar never had a 168 and gm never had an 8-bolt. It may be possible to cut down a Mopar 172 and install a 168 ring.
    There were, long ago and far away, 172 tooth wheels for the 426 Hemi but you will more likely be using a 57-61 vintage piece and no SFI....or back to a one-off custom.
    The additional consideration in wheel design will be the location of the ring vs the starter pinion and the location of the splines in the disc vs the splines on the input shaft. The thickness of the adapter will affect both.
    If you can't make your own parts then Pat McGuire has them, just not inexpensive.

    .
     
    saltflats likes this.
  15. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,126

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I do have the flywheel that cam with my engine(1958 Dodge 354) but not sure if it would be used or would want to use it.
     
  16. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    SFI wheels are required by racing sanctioning bodies. Are you racing or driving? How many millions of oem wheels have been made and used without exploding in everyday driving?
    IMHO, if yours is a DD then an oem wheel should be adequate.
    Side stepping the clutch??? you're on your own...:eek:

    .
     
    saltflats likes this.
  17. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,126

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    This will be a race only.
    Dragster high gear only (I hope).
     
  18. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,982

    George
    Member

    Saw this posted on another forum, unverified. " I just read some interesting information in a parts catalog. It looks like the 146 tooth Chrysler starters will directly interchange with the '51-'53 Oldsmobile V8 (6 Volt) starters, which also have 146 tooth flywheels. Also, the '57-'58 Chrysler starters with 172 tooth flywheels will interchange with '54-'56 Oldsmobile starters that are even the same 12Volt drive voltage. So that may open up more possibilities if someone can't find an original Chrysler starter for a decent price.

    How is this useful? I found aftermarket hi-torque starters for the Oldsmobile that are $60 cheaper than the equivalent Hemi starter, and yet they have the same part number!!"
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  19. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    Good stuff George!
    Now, if 'someone' has some free time to verify...:)

    .
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  20. Dedsoto
    Joined: Jan 7, 2014
    Posts: 8

    Dedsoto
    Member
    from Australia
    1. Aussie HAMBers

    Tried searching but to no avail. I have a Trans-dapt NC-4 to put the 3 speed behind my little red ram but am having trouble finding the 1613713 starter plate. The Trans-dapt paper work recommends the 1613713 or equivalent, my question is, who has the numbers for the 1613713 equivalents/interchange?
    Thanks 20181127_173834.jpg 20181127_174530.jpg
     
  21. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,095

    continentaljohn
    Member

    I will check my starter plates and see if there’s a difference .


     
  22. 35desoto
    Joined: Oct 6, 2009
    Posts: 759

    35desoto
    Member

    An adaptor plate from a 1954/55 V8 onwards powerflyte will fit. The number you quoted comes from a 1956 maybe 57 yet the plate from in front of any powerflyte is the same through the mid to late 50's. The torqueflyte ones are slightly thicker and I am scratching my head to recall the thickness difference between a powerflyte and a torquflyte one. cheers Brett
     
  23. I think I've got one.
    Pm me if you'd like it. Cover it's ride plus $25 for some adult beverages please IMG_20190220_071245880.jpeg

    Full Kustom drunk mobile posting
     
    Dedsoto likes this.
  24. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,179

    73RR
    Member

    There are three different thicknesses for the plates. Back in the 'old' days the adapter folks used the 57-58 in order to use the 12 volt starter and the 172 tooth flywheel. The 57-58 plate is 1-1/8" inch thick. I don't think many used the 56 pieces.

    .
     

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