Register now to get rid of these ads!

HEMI Tech- Identification

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow! This is important! How do you know what you have until you've actually looked at some numbers! The obvious visuals are a clue, but how about year, make, where things were casted, where it came from and what it was used for.... We need to get this topic moving for sure!! Lots of questions on the HAMB about "what Hemi is this?"...

    1) Visual I.D. of make and models...
    - How do you know when you have a Hemi (DUH!)?
    - Visuals to tell them apart (make, model, size, etc.)?
    - Where the heck are the numbers on this thing???

    2) NUMBERS!
    - Block numbers?
    - Head numbers?
    - Crank numbers?
    - Cam numbers?
    - Valve train related numbers?
    - Intake numbers?
    - Rod numbers?
    - Piston numbers (stock)?
    - Ignition related numbers?
    - Oil system related numbers?
    - Flywheel numbers?
    - Cooling system part numbers?
    - Misc. related numbers?

    This is a HUGE info hog!! Please keep postings orgarnzed to help make things easy to reference. This one will take some time to fill out! I have some excellent references for most of those and will post them as I get time. Just wanted to get the topic started. If anyone is itching to post some numbers, have at it! Otherwise I'll post them as soon as I can...
     
  2. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,458

    Little Wing
    Member
    from Northeast

  3. 4tford
    Joined: Aug 27, 2005
    Posts: 1,486

    4tford
    Member

  4. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. Ruiner
    Joined: May 17, 2004
    Posts: 4,148

    Ruiner
    Member

  6. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    the most compehensive source for casting # is Leo Lundquist's book. leorob51@frontiernet.net 114 pages. covers things you wouldn't think had #s!
     
  7. ol fueler
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 935

    ol fueler
    Member

    The sites listed are pretty comprehensive. They list most of the Major parts. none show piston casting numbers. I can lit some of the piston numbers , there may be others , I have no dope on 331 pistons.

    354 pistons 3 15/16 dia. 9.1: 1 compression. 1956
    1619727
    1732946
    I can see no difference between these two piston numbers --- perhaps weight? The 56 300 had 9.1:1 or 10.0;1 compression but I don't think either one of these #s is a 300 piston, the compression height is exactly the same.

    392 Pistons 4.00 dia. 9.25 :1 or 10.0:1 1957--1958.

    1957 1732504 9.25:1
    1958 1827804 10.0:1

    The 331 engines had 7.5:1 at first --raised to 8.5:1 in later incarnations.
    Tell you what , I won't even try to convince people that boring a 331 to 354 size & using stock 354 pistons will raise the compression in it -- because ALL the books & Bob Walker say that you will end up losing compression when you do that---so don't bore your 331 motor .125 & use the 354 slugs you found at the swap meet for 15 bucks, Buy a set of 500.00 pistons from somebody & send ME the SWAP meet ones--OK? :D
     
  8. ANewBeat
    Joined: May 1, 2005
    Posts: 245

    ANewBeat
    Member
    from Floriduh

    The block numbers are found directly in front of the valley cover. On the top of the block, right at the front. The Chryslers have the year in the first group of casting numbers, along with letters that will give you the model. (ie. CE55-xxxx is an Imperial from 1955, 58N3-xxxx is a Chrysler 300 from 1958). 1951 - 1955 are 331 cu. in., 1956 are 354 cu. in., 1957 - 1958 are 392 cu. in. The Dodge car motors all have a D in the first group of numbers, the DeSotos all have an S in the first group. Marines all have an M, industrial motos all have IND. The Dodge truck motors are the funny ones, as far as numbers go. Also, if you can't tell the difference between an early Hemi (1951-1958) and a 426, then look for the distributor. Early motors have the dizzy in back, 426's got 'em up front.
     
  9. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    If that is blank/unreadable there are casting #s pass. side rear between the head & valley cover.
     
  10. old kid
    Joined: Mar 21, 2005
    Posts: 826

    old kid
    Member Emeritus
    from middle ga

    what george said.
    dan
     

  11. You beat me to it. It's a great little book, but I thought it was kind of pricey.
     
  12. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    I'd hate to think of how much time/effort went into the large amount of obscure stuff in there!
     
  13. You have me there. I'm just a tightwad. ;-)
     
  14. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    seems like a "DUH" to us, but it's amazing/irritating how many times someone says they have a Hemi in the shed, then when you look you see spark plugs sticking out the side of the head, instead of wires going into the valve covers! (Not to mention smart ass Chevy guys w fake valve covers!)
     
  15. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,587

    krooser
    Member

    HOW pricey IS pricey?
     
  16. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Very true!
     
  17. ol fueler
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 935

    ol fueler
    Member

    The rest of that frustration is that EVERY Hemi in the shed is a "392" , yup thats right---a Dodge 392 or a Desoto 392 --- then of course you get , " All hemis are 392s -- they didn't made any other size".
     
  18. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    Picked up his newest edition in May. Total price 21.50
     
  19. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    BINGO!!!
     
  20. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here's some Chrysler Cam casting I.D. information
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252517

    There's not a lot of info at the other sources for cam casting numbers. Maybe that will help some people!

    Thanks ks662!
     
  21. fisher_man_matt
    Joined: Jul 22, 2006
    Posts: 147

    fisher_man_matt
    Member

    If this isn't the right place to post this question, please PM me and I'll remove it. I don't want to clutter a tech thread

    I recently purchased a Hemi for my project truck, a '50 Dodge.
    [​IMG]

    The engine is a Chrysler Industrial. [​IMG]

    I'm trying to figure out exactly what I've got. Should the casting number be visible on an assembled engine or will the heads, intake, and valley cover need to be removed? Also, I recall reading that the industrial heads didn't have a water crossover in the rear. The heads on this engine appear to have block-off plates covering the crossover location. Is this typical?
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for any help, I'm new to this Hemi thing.
     
  22. Your engine should have a stainless metal ID plate near the dipstick indicating what model you have - and it appears to be gone. Your engine is either a 331 or a 354 Chrysler. The actual block casting number is located on the top of the engine block adjacent to the valley cover. It would be below where the ignition coil is laying in the above picture. You can view it with the intake manifold still attached - just look down between the intake runners. One note - I have a couple 1619829 engine blocks (typically used for production of 354 engines) that were only bored to the 331 size. Keep in mind these things were mass produced meaning they used what they had available and what was approved to meet production requirements. Without the ID plate, the only way to be 100% sure is to actually measure the bore size.

    The head casting numbers (must remove the valve covers to see) will also help identify the year of manufacture. The heads you have are the "automotive style" as there are water outlets at the ends. The heat crossover in the intake has engine exhaust running through it on your engine (some others like marine and HD truck engines used engine coolant in the crossover).

    The intake manifold casting number can also be helpful in determining the year of manufacture.

    Your engine appears to be a very typical example of a Chrysler Industrial engine, and it is very similar to the car engine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
  23. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,722

    George
    Member

    The heads can be bolted on either side, so the water openings facing the rear are blocked off.
     
  24. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  25. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    Fisher Man Matt's hemi is a good example of a later production Industrial engine. Basically a car engine with a 2bbl intake. I have seen some that had 555 heads with the large stem sodium exhaust valves.

    As a side note, I have yet to see an Industrial that actually had adjustable rockers.
     
  26. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,943

    73RR
    Member

    Block Identification Numbers.

    The following is a long list of numbers that I have found over the years but in no way do I claim that it is a complete list...:D Hopefully it will be of help. All codes shown will have a '-' and then production related numbers, ie. C51- 1001001

    These numbers are stamped on the top front of the block, on the machine surface, just ahead of the valley cover.

    Chrysler Hemi________________________________
    C51 ....... 1951....... 331 ....... 2-bbl
    C52 ....... 1952....... 331 ....... 2-bbl
    C53....... 1953....... 331....... 2-bbl (last year)
    C54....... 1954....... 331....... 4-bbl (on all following years)
    CE55.......1955....... 331
    NE55.......1955....... 331....... New Yorker
    3NE55.....1955....... 331....... Chrysler 300 dual 4-bbl
    CE56.......1956....... 354....... Imperial
    NE56.......1956....... 354....... New Yorker
    3NE56......1956.......354....... Chrysler 300 dual 4-bbl
    CE57....... 1957.......392....... Imperial
    NE57....... 1957.......392....... New Yorker
    3NE57.......1957.......392....... Chrysler 300 dual 4-bbl
    58C....... 1958.......392....... Imperial
    58N....... 1958.......392....... New Yorker
    58N3....... 1958....... 392....... Chrysler 300 factory fitted with fuel injection, later replaced with dual 4-bbl by dealers.


    Chrysler Spitfire_____________________________________
    WE55....... 1955.......301....... Windsor ....... 2-bbl
    WE56....... 1956 .......331.......Windsor ....... 2-bbl
    WE57....... 1957....... 354.......Windsor....... 2-bbl
    WE57....... 1957 .......354.......Saratoga ....... 4-bbl
    58W ....... 1958....... 354.......Windsor ....... 2-bbl
    58S ....... 1958....... 354.......Saratoga....... 4-bbl


    Dodge Hemi__________________________________________
    D44.......1953....... 241....... Red-Ram ....... 2-bbl
    D48.......1953....... 241....... Red-Ram ....... 2-bbl
    D50.......1953....... 241....... Red-Ram ....... 2-bbl
    D55.......1953....... 270....... Red-Ram ....... 2-bbl
    D55.......1955....... 270....... Super Red-Ram....... 4-bbl
    D56.......1955....... 270....... Super Red-Ram....... 4-bbl
    D500......1956.......315....... 4-bbl
    D500......1956.......315....... Power-Pack....... dual 4-bbl
    KD500....1957......325....... 4-bbl
    KD500....1957......325....... Power-Pack....... dual 4-bbl
    D501..... 1957.......354....... Chrysler engine....... dual 4-bbl


    Dodge 'Poly'___________________________________________
    D55 ....... 1955 ....... 270 ....... 2-bbl
    D63-1.......1956 ....... 270....... 2-bbl
    D63-2.......1956 ....... 315....... 2-bbl
    D63-3.......1956 ....... 315....... 4-bbl
    KDS ....... 1957....... 325....... 2-bbl
    L325....... 1958....... 325....... 4-bbl
    LD2 ....... 1958 ....... 325....... 4-bbl


    DeSoto Hemi_________________________________________
    S17 .......1952.......276.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
    S16 .......1953.......276.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
    ('16' and '17' are not reversed...)
    S19....... 1954.......276 ......Firedome....... 2-bbl
    S21....... 1955.......291.......Fireflite....... 4-bbl
    S22....... 1955.......291.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
    S23....... 1956.......330.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
    S24....... 1956.......330.......Fireflite....... 4-bbl
    S24A......1956.......341.......Adventurer....... dual 4-bbl
    S25....... 1957.......341.......Firedome....... 2-bbl
    S26....... 1957.......341.......Fireflite....... 4-bbl
    S26A.......1957.......345......Adventurer....... dual 4-bbl
    S27....... 1957....... 325......Dodge Engine....... 4-bbl


    Plymouth 'Poly'_______________________________________
    P27 ....... 1955....... 241....... 2-bbl
    P27....... 1955....... 260....... 2-bbl
    -----P27 used for two engines------
    P29....... 1956....... 270....... 2-bbl


    Note on truck engines; on Chrysler blocks, look for a 'W' cast in relief between the core plugs. This indicates a 354 block although the finished bore may be 331. The 'W' is also found on pass car 354 blocks.

    Light Duty Trucks____________________________
    These can be Hemi or Poly, some numbers were duplicated
    VT-334....... 1954 ....... 241
    VT-334....... 1954....... 260
    VT-336....... 1954 ....... 241
    VT-338....... 1954 ....... 241
    VT-338 ....... 1955 ....... 260
    VT-350 ....... 1954....... 331
    VT-434 ....... 1955-1956....... 260
    VT-436....... 1955-1956 ....... 260
    VT-444....... 1956 ....... 260
    VT-448....... 1956 ....... 331
    VT-448....... 1959 ....... 354
    VT-534....... 1957 ....... 315
    VT-536....... 1957 ....... 315
    VT-538....... 1957 ....... 315
    VT-544....... 1956 ....... 315
    VT-548....... 1956....... 354
    VT-549....... 1956....... 354
    VT-550....... 1956....... 354
    VT-576....... 1958....... 354


    Medium Duty Trucks___________________________________
    Hemi, some numbers were duplicated
    VT-342....... 1955....... 270
    VT-344....... 1955....... 270
    VT-346....... 1956....... 270
    VT-348....... 1956....... 270
    VTX-442..... 1956....... 270
    C-68....... 1956....... 331
    C-72....... 1957....... 354
    C-76....... 1954....... 331

    Heavy Duty Trucks, Busses, (big stuff) ________________
    -------some numbers were duplicated--------
    B8, C8, D8, F8, FS8, G8, GH8, HS8..................................................1955-1956.....260
    J8, JS8, KA8, KS8.........................................................................1955............270
    R8, RS8, T8, V8............................................................................1955............331
    K8D4, K8D5, K8D6, K8S4, K8S5, K8S6...............................................1957............315
    K8C5, K8C6, K8C7, K8D7, K8D8, K8P3, K8P4, K8S7, K8W5,K8T7, K8T8.......1957..........331
    K8C7, K8D7, K8D9, K8T7, K8T8, K8T9.................................................1957..........354
    L8C5, L8C6, L8D4, L8D5, L8D6, L8P3, L8P4, L8S4, L8S5, L8S6, L8W5.......1958...........315
    L8C7, L8D7, L8D8, L8D9, L8T7, L8T8, L8T9........................................ 1958.......... 354
    M8C6, M8D6, M8S6 ........................................................................1959......... 315
    M8C7, M8D7, M8D8, M8D9, M8S7, M8T7, M8T8, M8T9...........................1959..........354
    M8D8 ......................................................................................... 1959 .........315


    Marine ______________________________________
    M44S-3 ..................... 270
    M45S-3 ..................... 354
    M45SP ..................... 331
    M45SP-3 ..................... 354


    Industrial___________________________________________
    IND 18, 18A ................ 241
    IND-20, 20A, 24, 24A ..... 331
    IND-52 ...................... 260
    IND-53,54 .................... 315
    IND-56 ........................ 331
    IND-56A ..................... 354
    IND56A1 ..................... 325


    If any one has additions or corrections please send me a note.

    Additional info can be found on my web site.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
    Mopar Jack likes this.
  27. S24A is a 1956 341 Adventurer dual 4-bl engine...:D
     
  28. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 5,943

    73RR
    Member


    My keybroad made a mistrake...:D

    .
     
  29. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 13,070

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    HOLY CRAP!!! Great addition Gary!!! THANKS!!!!!!!!
     
  30. Joebill
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 3

    Joebill
    Member
    from Tennessee

    Okay, this is what I've got, but how do I know which one it is? I'm totally new at this, so I'm sorry if it's an obvious answer.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.