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Hemi oil pump shaft

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hemi rodder, Mar 25, 2012.

  1. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    was replacing the oil pump shaft bushing in my 354 that i am building, noticed the end of the shaft that couples to the oil pump is worn a bite, i have 2 other 331, so i checked the shaft from them and they are worn also, but they are also about 1/4 shorter, is the 331 shafts different from 354. and how important is that small amount of wear?
     
  2. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    From the bottom of the gear to the tip of the shaft should be 5.23". The 392 is 5.5".
     
  3. tinknocker86
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 28

    tinknocker86
    Member
    from california

    Just TIG it up grind it down, carefully and accurately, and reinstall. Do it all the time. - Larry
     
  4. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    my 354 shaft is 5.5, but the 2 331 shafts are 5.23, you say the 392 shaft is 5.5 problably because of the taller deck i am guessing not sure if the extra height is above or bellow the cam. if it has nothing to do with that reason, is it because of a different oil pump set up and why is my 354 5.5 long?
     

  5. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    i installed the shaft and pump to take mesurment and i definetly need the long one to engage the pump, is there a gasket that goes between the pump and main cap, my surface of the cap is rough, someone was there before me, i filled it flat but was wondering about a gasket, none in my gasket kit.
     
  6. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    All 331 and 354 are listed to take the 5.23 shaft. The 392 is the only one with a 5.5 length. Now, to add to the confusion. The shaft length would depend on 1: what rear main cap your engine has, and 2: if you are using the correct oil pump.

    Something that is overlooked is the fact that there are several different rear main cap configurations. Not just in the pump bolt pattern, but also in the height of the pump mount. Some later 354 caps are tall, and there is no way you could use the 5.23 shaft safely. Frankly, I am surprised this hasnt been brought up before now, with all the posts on oil pumps and problems.

    As far as I know, only marine engines used an oil pump mounting gasket. I do have these gaskets in the works. In the meantime I would just make my own.

    Update: I just grabbed the first five 331 and 354 rear main caps I could find. The overall heights are 2.495 2.520 2.602 2.630 and 2.850.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  7. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    i just mesured my 354 rear cap and i have 2.850 and my 2 other 331 have 2.495, almost 1/2'' in diference, i am suprized that others haven't had problemes with this, it is enough that it will not engage the pump and shaft properly, and if there is somr caps that fall in between that even more dangerouse because it will only partialy engage and wont last. my 354 is 1957 industral, would be late model i guess the reason for the tall cap. what kind of material for gasket would you use, would thermostat gasket material do? or just put gasket eliminator (the red stuff almost like shelac)(not silicone)
     
  8. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,545

    73RR
    Member

    Not sure about the first 4 that Tom listed but the last/tall cap is typical of all truck engines that I have checked. The first 4 are close in OAH and the slots may allow for the variance.
    Now I gotta go dig out some blocks and do some measuring...

    As to the gasket, if the mating surfaces are clean they should be OK. Early engines used o-rings but they were discontinued fairly soon as they were apparently not needed. If you worked over the surface with anything other than a milling machine then a sealer of some sort may be useful. I would use a paper gasket material.

    .
     
  9. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    I would use a piece of 1/64 paper gasket material such as Fel-Pro Karropak.
     
  10. BashingTin
    Joined: Feb 15, 2010
    Posts: 270

    BashingTin
    Member

    Wow! That's amazing info there. Thank you.
     
  11. TR Waters
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,439

    TR Waters
    Member
    from Vermont
    1. Early Hemi Tech

    UPDATE:

    I just took apart a very late 354 poly, and it too has the tall rear main cap. :eek:
     
  12. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    just like my 354
     
  13. bohica2xo
    Joined: Mar 6, 2012
    Posts: 153

    bohica2xo
    Member
    from Las Vegas

    I believe that TR Waters now has the oil pump gaskets in stock for the oil pumps.

    B.
     
  14. My industrial 354's use 392 pumps and the longer intermediate shafts. Like Tinknocker said, I've welded them up and reground the slot before. Works fine.
     
  15. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    up-date, i am transplanting my 354 in my rod that had a 331, using all the accesories from the 331 to finish off my 354. it had an adapter for using a chevy distributor from hot heads, my probleme is that the shaft they suplie in the kit worked for the 331 but the lower part under the gear is not long enough(as mentioned above in this thread) :( by 0.320", if i figure this out properly i would have to order the 392 adapter kit from hot heads for the hemi-chevy distributor. am i right?
     
  16. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,383

    George
    Member

    If cap height is = to the 392.
     
  18. hemi rodder
    Joined: Oct 10, 2011
    Posts: 510

    hemi rodder
    Member
    from NB Canada

    I forgot to up date, I did order from hot heads just the shaft (chevy adapter kit) for the 392 and it all worked out fine, I would also recommend that before installing the valley cover to check your distributor engagement to the shaft, I also had issue there.
    and for reference I was using a stock replacement oil pump.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  19. hemiphil
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 25

    hemiphil
    Member
    from australia

    This is good info, i have 3 different main caps, 2.495, 2.625, 2.850, 2.495 is off of 301 poly i think, 2.850 is off 354 poly block, don't know what 2.625 is off.
     
  20. tricky steve
    Joined: Aug 4, 2008
    Posts: 380

    tricky steve
    Member
    from fenton,mo.

    ALL the time Larry?? really? are you doing it right now??
    Ha-Ha!!
     
  21. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,383

    George
    Member

    There have been 3 cap heights reported for 354s, std car, & it seems @ least 2 different ones for the truck engines. I suspect one matches the car & those made 57-9 probably were increased so 392 shafts could be used.

    someone's playing in the dead Threads....
     

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