Technical help with front panhard bar location

need some feedback/guidance from the suspension pros on where to locate my front panhard bar and a couple questions about it on my 30 coupe. as you can see by the pics, the frame is c notched up front so it limits how close i can get the panhard bar frame bracket in relation to the ibeam. my understanding is i want the panhard bar to run parallel to the tie rod at straight set up. setting it up base on this puts it in line to hit the u bolts for the front spring which as you can see in the pic need to be cut down which may solve that issue but would like it to clear all together. i could use a longer mounting bolt on the i beam to bring it out a little but then i am worried about flex in the i beam. have done a fair amount of reading online and on the hamb on the subject but just want some further clarification before i burn any wire. thanks for the help!

 

Why , w/a transverse spring , do you think you need a panhard ??
dave

 

read several articles about the benefit of a front panhard bar with the early ford suspension including right out of the pete & Jakes catalogue. you don't agree it sounds like

 

yes , with that cross steering box you should have a panhard bar

make sure the rod clears the center spring clamp. and before you finalized the location on the frame for the bracket make sure you turn the spindles lock to lock....the tie rod moves for and aft

 

I attached mine to the radius rod. If you cant see this working for you I have seen some people running a Dead perch on one side of the spring. Here is a couple of pics of how I set mine up.

 

i think i can cut down the ubolts so there is good clearance for the amount of up and down travel the bar will have. good point on the tie rod travel. i am thinking the panhard bracket will get mounted up tight to the c notch to get it as close to the ibeam as possible.

 

It might not be as pretty, but you can put a dip in the middle of the bar to clear your spring clamp. In fact you could tie curly q's in your bar and it won't make any difference in the function, as long as the mount on each end is the same distance from the ground.

The best functioning bar will be as long as possible, and parallel to the ground (the mount ends parallel to the ground).

 

In parallel to the ground, you mean the measurement from the ground to both attachment points of the bar are equal?

 

The panhard bar should be the same length as the drag link, and running at exactly the same angle (as close to level at ride height as possible).

The notion that it be as long as possible holds true for a rear panhard bar.

If your front bar is too different in length from the drag link, you will induce bump-steer.

 

I thought of doing a front panhard but decided against the extra bar under the front, didn't want the clutter. I instead made a dead perch from a SoCal spring perch, welded it with the exact angle I needed and had it powder coated. My Model A (avatar) handles so much better and I notice no difference in the ride, happy with the results. The dead perch is on the left, regular perch on the right.

 

I dig it.

 

I have seen and heard of it for sure. I already have the Panhard bar so onward we go. It will tuck in behind the I beam and with the rad and grill in place I am guessing it will be pretty in conspicuous

 

I always wonder why guys insist on a panhard bar on the front when a much simpler dead perch will do the same thing, much simpler. So Cal sells a real nice one, I think made by Deuce Factory.

 

I bought the one SoCal sells but the angle was so far off I couldn't use it, made my own to fit my suspension.

 

Because the dead-perch half of the leaf spring effectively becomes a Panhard bar, but it's much shorter than the steering cross-link, and unlikely to be anywhere near the same angle. If the suspension travel is really short the resulting bump-steer might not be noticeable.

 

I had picked up the Panhard bar before I had learned of the dead perch as I knew about the bar from my muscle car work. I think these pics show its pretty inconspicuous sitting there mocked up right now and one the rad and grill are in place and the rest of the motor I don't think too many eyes will be on the bar below. Just my thought.

 

Have you mocked up radiator to water pump / fan spacing yet? Not the subject of this thread, but it looks possibly too close???

Just thought I'd ask...

 

I have never seen a front panhard that went past the bat wings, (and many that were shorter than that) and that is quite a bit shorter than the drag link and have never seen an appreciable amount of bump steer.
Then again I ran a dead perch for years and got flamed on here saying they don't work even though older Sprint Cars with transverse leafs ran them.

 

Physics does not lie.

 

While that is true, you didn't really respond to my statement about length - Have you seen one that goes past the bat wings? And while the geometry may measure out a small amount of bump steer in theory, it doesn't mean that it is perceptible to the driver, or at least in any amount that would cause issues. Hell, many 50's and 60's car have pretty measurable bump steer yet you never really notice it while driving.
Not trying to argue with you, just looking for an explanation to your statement that is needs to be the same length as the Drag Link, when this is very difficult to do, and not generally done.

 

Yup all that has been mocked up already with good clearance. Did all that before welding in the motor mounts

 

With the basic dimensions of what most of these cars are set up on duece rails, I am trying to see how the Panhard bar could possibly be the same length as the drag link. Mine is a little more that an inch shorter but any longer and I would be off the frame on the one side and or into the wishbone on the other side. My Panhard bar is from P&J and is a standard set up for a duece frame. Again this is newer stuff to me so not trying to argue but from my mechanical knowledge, can't see how you could achieve greater length

 

On a work emergency response call. This will have to wait.

 

Put it in front of the axle. Simple as that. Lots of room up there. Henry did it.

Oh, you don't like the looks? Then you'll have to compromise.

 

I was thinking of that originally but with the frame tapering in its would put the axle mount into the spindle area, wouldn't work. The set up is fine behind the axle.

 

Hi Alchemy,

"Put it in front of the axle. Simple as that. Lots of room up there. Henry did it."

I did some Google snooping but only found one Ebay reference for for front track bars on Ford passenger cars.
Plenty of references to rear track bars.
Do you know of a source or even years or key words so I can do some reading and looking?

thanks

Dan T

 

Ford started the rears in 1941 I think, but I think the fronts didn't get installed til after the war. Maybe even as late as '48. I could off a couple years.

 

Frame notch with Panhard bar mount, still pending welding in this pic. The bolts are for the shock mount.

Other end mounts on radius rod, also serves as a mount for steering damper.

Damper then mounts to tie rod with a custom made mount.


Canuck

 

An uneeded item, and a waste of time & effort

 

Not unneeded. My Dad had difficulty with bump steer on his '32 tudor that used a Vega box until he installed a dead perch. He liked it much better afterwards.