Help, I want to make a 5.0L look like an early 289

So I have been looking for a 289 or early 302 and they are just getting harder to find and more expensive. I have three of them that all need complete rebuilds, but I have a 89ish 5.0L with only 3000 miles on it. I have striped it down completly and I know I have seen them that look like the early motors. What I want to do is hook it up to a C-4 trans and put it in my 51 Merc pick-up to replace the knocking 71 302.
What flex plate, harmonic balancer, and distributor ect do I need to use? How much off the old 302 can I use? And if anyone knows of any good 5.0 sites that explain this in detail it would also help. I want to get back up and running soon so I can at least drive it this summer.
Thanks alot.

 

ok,first thing,a 89 5.0 has a 50 oz. flywheel weight,so you need a harmonic balancer /flywheel from a 1980 or newer 302/5.0,jegs has,or you can get one from autozone or a junk yard,any 289/302 distributor will work,but if your running the hyd roller cam that in the 89 5.0 get a accel,mallory,msd,ect and dont forget to go through the break in period for dist gear with a roller cam,also,you can get the plugs for the back of the heads to plug the smog passages,then everything else from a older 289/302 will work with no trouble,intake,valve covers,oil pan and pick up will bolt right on,also,remember your water pump on the 89 engine is reverse rotation,it turns the oppisite way of the 71 302,but that can be fixed by using the timing cover and water pump from the 71 and this way all your older mounting brackets work with no trouble.

 

piece of cake. All parts are interchangeable. The later 302's are 50oz. imbalance, so you'll need to keep the '89 balancer and get a flexplate for 50 oz. Everythiing else externally will swap over..Timing cover, valve covers, intake, oil pan, water pump, exhaust and distributor. Remember that the later sbf's changed the firing order.

 

OK, to make this easier, I have one complete 302/C-4 and one complete 5L/AOD. I take the AOD off and just bolt the C-4 with converter up to the 5L with the stock flex plate?
And can I take the crank pulley off of the 302 and bolt it on the 5.0 balancer?
I am assuming I put the old timing cover and the waterpump on the new 5L, but what about the old fuel pump? will it drive on the new 5L or do I have to put the fuel pump ecentric on the 5L? Were the all electric fuel pumps?

 

And what about starter motors? As I have both, I assume I would use the 5L one.

 

5.0's don't have a fuel pump concentric and if you fit the early one the timing cover will lock it up tight, I just ground down the width of the concentric and it fitted a treat. I just had my flexplate rebalanced.

Steve.

 

Not entirely true... ONLY H.O. 5 liters have the 351 firing order. Lo po ( aka Cown Vic etc. 5 liters have the old 289 firing order.)

 

Yes, mine has the old firing order. I have checked that several times, it's not an H.O. When I end up doing all of this swap, I am going to document everything for future reference as the 5.0's are so popular and easy to come by.
Thanks, please keep the info coming.

 

Why not keep the AOD?

I'm asking out of ignorance...overdrive seems like a good idea, and *most* overdrives seem to keep a better gear ratio, right?

are they weak kneed or something?

 

I have nothing of value to offer other than I have a 302 core you can have...please take it. ha ha.

 

Another thing to look out for - the older SBF engines had 3-bolt crank pulleys and I'm pretty sure the 5.0 has a 4-bolt crank pulley. I'm not sure what year they switched.

As mentioned already, watch out when using the old fuel pump eccentric on the newer engine - could be clearance issues. I know Ford Motorsport makes a one-piece fuel pump eccentric.

I think a question was asked about the water pumps. If you are using the old timing cover, make sure you use the old water pump with it - for reasons of different rotation direction.

Distributor gear - I don't think you have to worry so much about the break in of it w/ a hyd. roller cam. You just need to make sure it is a steel dist. gear and not a cast iron one. The roller cams are steel and need the steel gear to go w/ it. This is also available from Ford Motorsport.

(Side note: You may want to check to see if this is a roller cam engine. I'm pretty sure the 5.0s from trucks and crown vics were a flat tappet hyd. cam. I could be wrong.)

AOD - There may be a "TV" cable adjustment to worry about, as well as electronic and non-electronically controlled AODs.

Hope this helps you some....

Malcolm

 

I've done this swap on my '63 Ranchero, and most recently on my buddy's '23 T-bucket. First off, you will need a 50 oz. flywheel, the trouble is that I don't think a 5.0 ever came with a C-4 from the factory. If you need a 157 tooth flywheel, you will have to go to the aftermarket such as TCI for the correct flywheel, if you need the 164 tooth flywheel, I believe that you can use the AOD flywheel as far as balance goes, but I am not sure whether the torque converter will bolt to the AOD flywheel, you will have to check. You can get the correct steel dizzy gear from CJ's Pony Parts for about $25.00. As far as the pulleys go, the older pulleys will have the affore mentioned 3 bolts, and the 5.0 balancer will have 4 bolts. The good news is that the bolt patterns are on the same bolt circle, so you can bore out the lower 3 bolt pulley to center on the 5.0 balancer register, and drill the remaining three holes in the 3 bolt pulley as one of the bolt holes will line up. Use an early timing cover and water pump, and early fuel pump eccentric. The 5.0 oil pan will be rear sump, so to look like an early engine, you might want to convert to an early front sump pan.

 

Will the 302 C-4 torque converter bolt to the 5L flexplate?

Can we change all the 302 timing cover, W pump etc and use the 5L balancer?

Will the fuel pump work this way? Thanks.............OLDBEET

 

Sent you a P.M.

 

...."you can get the plugs for the back of the heads to plug the smog passages"

I have been wondering about this, where do I get these plugs?

 

This is what I THINK I know:

You have to have the right years together. After '81, they changed the unbalanced weight. I don't see a reason why an old C-4 won't work behind a newer 302, as long as the flexplate and balacer are right for each other.

There is no reason why a 351W pump and balancer won't work as far as I know. They are the same. Oh wait...did you mean 'W' as in Water pump? Yes, you can change the timing cover and use the water pump, as long as your belt drive is set up for the correct rotation. Some 5.0L's like the Lincolns, still used "normal rotation pumps", the 5.0L in Mustangs had a true serpentine belt setup, so they require a reverse-rotation pump. Confused yet?

If your engine is after 1986 or so, there may not be a fuel pump boss on the timing cover. 1986 is when they went F.I.... Ford Motorsports offers an "old school' style front cover that still has the boss. That's what I used. Summit carries it.

The bigger issue is weather or not this is a reverse-rotation motor or not. That will affect which water pump you go with, and the pulleys.

Or were you just being sarcastic Beet??

I think sometime in the mid-70's. I'd say 1975 for sure. I've had '77's that had the 4-bolt on 'em.

 

The local hardware store. Find the bolt that fits, and screw away...it's a coarse standard thread, IIRC...

 

Yep 4 bolt. Even the Non-HO motors.

 

There are two different AOD's, the AOD is non electronic and the AODE which is electronic.

Your 5.0L is a 4bolt crank pulley whereas your 71 302 is a 3.

Oldbeet... you can run the later timing cover with the later pump or the earlier with the earlier. The only problem with running the 5.0L balancer is the 4 bolt pulley pattern. The 5.0L is a grooved pulley and the water pump etc isn't. If you changed the water pump pulley, etc. to grooved pulley that may help. Also the C4 will bolt to the 5.0L flexplate.

 

Slowandlow nailed it...I may have been confusing...

 

Because I already have a driveshift, speedo/cable, and home made shift linkage that looks stock like a 3 on the tree and cooler lines ran. The 302 in the truck now has 4 bolt pullys and I also have a box of others, no problem there. I am just looking to mate this roller liftered 5.0 to a C-4 and use all the parts off of the 302 that I can, because most of the parts only have 100 miles on them before the oil pump went bad. And reverse rotation motor? Like a boat? Now I am getting really confused. BTW the 5L motor came out of a 89 or 90 wagon and it ran real smooth. The motor in the Merc came from a 71 Maverick, but appears to be a 73 to 75 with all of the C3's and C5 numbers. Thanks again.

 

I think the reverse rotation is just the water pump.

 

Yeah, that what I was thinking. Once I swich all the pulleys and use the 302 water pump, everything should work out.

 

The bolt for the smog blockage you are looking for If memory serves correct is a 7/16 - 14 threads ( I edited my post and went to check my E7 heads) and I would get a stainless steel one or grade 5 or 8. Use Silicone or a good high temp locktight on it as well. I would not use a bolt with a head for asthetic puporses, Get you an Allen head Set Screw. Works great and looks clean from behind. You can also call your local Ford Dealer up they have them as well I've got 4 302's laying around here 1 '89 5.0 with roller cam and such, FMS headers, 65mm throttle body and mass airflow set up, you knwo the drill. not too wild but nice n mild. One late 70's, one early 80's and one mid 80's. Ive got a nice set of keith black pistons to drop in one when I get around to it, but not sure what to really run it it. The mustang forums have assloads of info on these kinds of swaps, and usually a parts forum there, where you can get things dirt ass cheap.

 

Thanks for all the good info!!!!!!!!!!...........OLDBEET

 

Thanks guys.

 

Yeah, thanks fellas, now I have a game plan. After looking through a Summit catalog it's getting easier to identify which parts will cross over. I am going to jump on it this weekend and hope everything goes together as planed.

 

Good luck man. Take a few pics while you are at it and let us know how it goes.

There is some good information in this thread. Gotta love the power of the HAMB!

Malcolm

 

I will! After doing more research, damn you can really get some power out of the 5 liters and still make them look like an old 302. I will be keeping an eye out for a HO motor for the future, how cool would it be to run 12's in this thing? Here's also a pic of the old motor, damn shame it's a knocker cause it sure was a looker, but I think I can make the 5.0 look just as good.
Thanks all.

 

simple in my opinion, paint the motor black, find a pair of "powered by ford" stock not the finned kind, sandblast and paint them gold. get a set of shorty or tri-y headers. put on a set of motorcraft plug wires(black 7mm with orange boots) and if you want to get crazy by a couple 289 decals out of a mustang catalog simple but the black and gold screams 65 289 "k" code HiPo ford.