The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by bobw, Jan 14, 2009.
HAMBster Gremlins!! Don't worry, most of us are a bit off plumb too.
Gotcha. Yeah, it sure does look tilted in the photo.
Ours came out looking like Op art but it's what I'd intended, for functional reasons.
Bob, why are you worried about the clutch? I'm running a stock 10" in mine and have had no problems. You have built the scattersheild in case anything might happen.
Hi, Im just down the road from you and have been following your build with interest...I see from time to time you mention going to the metal yard and was wondering where you get your raw metal stock, Ive for years gone up to Winnicks in Forest lake but sure would like to find somewhere closer...
Rej, I guess I'm over-reacting to NHRA. Reviewing my rulebook it calls for a SFI 1.1 or 1.2 flywheel and clutch if quicker than 11.49. It also calls for a scattershield at quicker than 11.49. HA/GR's slower than 11.49 and running at places like Bakersfield, I'm sure are required to run a scatter shield. I'm assuming when the Tech guy sees a slow dragster where the driver has his feet alongside the flywheel/clutch area, they might demand a SFI flywheel and clutch, even though the rules appear to not require it. Showing up with something as out of the ordinary as a HAMBster, at a strip where they have never seen one, I'm expecting resistance from the tech guys. So, I'm just trying to cover the bases.
Hey, PhastWilliam, do you live hear Titus? I go to Discount Steel in Minneapolis. Not any closer than Winnicks, but it is a full city block of steel. They always have what I need, usually in the economy priced shorts rack. Customer service is top notch.
The problem is if you start offering tech things that are beyond the class limits, be it requirements for quicker cars or "certifications" on parts and such it just helps them to justify their over regulation of simple stuff. Better to show up simple and be willing to make minor changes to please them than show up with space age stuff and try to impress them. These cars are meant to be built in the spirit of the older cars and they already seem to think that "nostalgia" means new stuff that has no resemblance to anything that raced before they came up with their ideas of "nostalgia cars".
There once was a time when altereds and "rails" were cars built in someones garage from existing frames and scrounged parts and many of them had much faster and quicker times than ours will ever achieve, but if the N(o)H(ot)R(ods)A(llowed) had their way, we would all be running modern Funny Car certified chassis with our inlines and flatheads and calling it a "vintage style rail". That is the unfortunate big money regulated state of the sport and if we are going to do this as it was invisioned, we need to bend the rules a bit in our favor through understanding tech inspectors, (and there are some out there), to get our foot in the door.
I'm not advocating unsafe race cars, just saying that with perseverance, we may be able to get a small amount of common sense applied to our efforts when they see the reality of what speeds and ETs we run.
End of rant.
Good luck on the common sense !....Bob , I met Titus at a Blacksmith lounge swap meet last spring and havent seen him since...Need some T stuff so gotta find that card he gave me...dont know where he lives....I live on Rivercrest road , right up the hill from the Bungalow restaraunt...I am a memeber of MSRA since 1967 I am #47...I must know you , Ive lived in this area all my life...working on a car I got from Pilquist in 1980 ! Enjoying your project...thanks for the prompt reply...And by the way...Old All Star junkyard down by Afton has reopened and is now a you pull it lot and being run by some genuine good guys all kinds of cars not just rice burners...
I don't see that using a tested-proven blow-up proof flywheel and clutch is detrimental in any way. I understand your (64dodge 440) and many other builder's concerns about keeping the faith with these cars. However, just like the Minnesota DMV dictates what I can legally put on the street, the NHRA dictates what I can race at the tracks they sanction. Like it or not, and as much as some of their stipulations appear illogical, one shrimpy old guy with a home built rail in the hinterlands of Minnesota showing up at an NHRA sactioned track is not going to sway them into changing their requirements. As much as I like "kicking against the pricks", in my estimation, this is one fight I cannot win, locally.
When you SoCal guys and you guys in the southern plains get enough cars built that NHRA reserves a class for them, then I can rebuild mine to those rules. That will be a happy day.
Can't wait to see this thing on the strip! I really want to see more of that stuff at our drags! Think you'll have it done by then? If not, bring the Crosley again. That thing was bad ass.
Most of the day was taken up with my "Old Boys" lunch and the BS session that followed. It's the best afternoon of the week.
Did manage to carve up a chunk of 5/16" by 3" iron and make an intake/exhaust flange out of it.
Wow, we should be bringing 4 cars to Sabin next race. I doubt the HAMBster will be ready, but the Crosley will have about 75 more horsepower.
phast, I sent you a PM. If you didn't get it, let me know.
Intake/exhaust flange looks good. Did you do it on a mill? One of my partners (also a nephew) has a large metal company here in Kansas City and recently cut out some flanges for our Jimmy. He cut them from 3/8 steel on his water jet. They look better than the ones I machined, and it beats the hell out of me standing there for hours at the mill.
Are you going to make it down to this area this year for some HA/GR racing?
I guess that will be about the same time as that proverbial snow storm in hell. The NHRA won't ever give us a class because the NHRA isn't about hot rodders or home built run what ya brung, heads up racing, they are about big bucks, "pro built and certified" cars, sponsorship and "putting on a show" where they can charge the public to come and watch.
Our whole gig out here on the SoCal front is basically being hung on the ANRA series,
http://www.anra.com/ and the Dragfest meet put on by Rod and Kulture, http://www.randkdragfest.com/ and without the support of these folks, if we were left with the option of running NHRA meets we probably would be limited to finding a back road out in the boondocks to use for on our racing.
Nobody ever said building and racing these cars would be easy and if you want to fit in at one of the NHRA places, you should probably rethink your ideas and build a simple bracket racer.
Personally, the idea of running a class where you can lose by going too fast doesn't fit my concept of what drag racing is about, and it doesn't matter to me if the car runs in the 14 second range or the 8 second range, if the idea isn't to get every bit of performance out of what you have, it's just turns the whole thing into a game.
Ron, the plate was made with hole saws and a die grinder. I have the minimum of equipment and utilize caveman techniques for most everything I do. I don't mind if a task takes a fair amount of time because this is how I love spending my time.
I pretty much quit going to the strip in the mid-70's when the engines went from in front of the driver to behind and when brake lights before the finish line became prominent. Since I started running my Fiat (which I rebodied with the Crosley wagon body to pass tech) I have run a couple nostalgia events a year which are basically grudge racing. I also go to test and tune and run against friends, or whomever is in the other lane. That is how my HAMBster will be utilized locally. If I wanted to win at bracket racing then a more consistent style of car would make sense. I don't care about winning or losing, only about getting everything out of my rig and plotting the next tuning changes or modifications.
If ANRA follows the old VRA (Goodguys) format, then most of the classes are indexed, which still means you can build a 8.60 car and run a 9.60 class, for instance. And, if you go quicker than 9.60, you're out! Ya just can't get away from it! Damn near all drag racing nowdays is either against an index or is dial your E.T. That's just the way it is. The alternative is what I do; Test & Tune and Fun Run grudge racing. I think I'll have a terrific time doing that with my HA/GR-type race car.
At first the idea of an organized HA/GR class sounded fun and seemed possible. Unfortunately NHRA controls most of organized drag racing and doesn't want another "unprofessional" class they have to regulate and control. It's all about the Pro classes, big money and TV.
Just like you, my partners and I have decided to just play with our car wherever we can, forget organized racing, and have fun. In fact the car is going in the World of Wheels car show tomorrow night here in Kansas City. It will be part of a nostalgia exhibit.
Believe me, I've spent most of my hot rodding years with hole saws, files and hacksaws. In fact the older I get, watching old movies on TV instead of working on a car all the time sounds pretty good.
We'll run the car wherever we can and just have fun.
Ron & Bob,
You guys have the right idea. Have fun and run your cars at any track you can get on. The HA/GR cars are great and with a little good luck they will be able to run in SoCa for some time. There is a reason that ANRA & Dragfest are held at Famosa in Bakersfield, CA. and that has a lot to do with the operation and tech people at the track. You may not like the NHRA rules (and must of us don't) but they own the tracks and have the power to pull the plug any time they want. In 40 years of racing in the SoCa area I have dealt with the good and the bad in tech people and I will say that the people at Famosa over the years have been good to work with. Make the changes they require. They are more on our side than the NHRA Office that controls who and what races at our local tracks.
Index racing may not be everyone's idea of of what drag racing should be about, but it's the current game in town and with over 200 N/E & Gasser class cars signed up for this years March Meet I still think it works. At this point in life I'm just happy that I can still get in my altered and have some fun. Keep on building. Just my 2 cents.
Gentlemen, it's good to be reminded that there are still others who "get it", no matter how hack that phrase may sound to some folks. Perhaps one day we'll be able to put something decent together outside the reach of the constipated mindset that NHRA's become. Perhaps not. But 'til then we'll run where we can & as we might, and we'll enjoy our car & our friends.
Thank you, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the last few posts.
keep your chin up mate, you're doing good, great seeing your progress.
Note: I only just saw your PM, as I've been offline for a while, as my wife and I have just had our 2nd daughter, so life hectic.
Cheers, and keep at it,
Congrats on the second one!
Watch out, you may have one of them in the cockpit before it is over with.
My son and I are building his own HA/GR, so it is contagious!
Junior HA/GR's??? To get the kids started in the right direction! HAMB's answer to NHRA's Jr. Dragster class. Congratulations Andrew. Maybe that new one will win the Junior HA/GR class in 10 years. My youngest is 37. Heck, my youngest grandkid is 10. Love them and enjoy them as much as you can because they grow up way too fast.
Rej, the fact that you will have 2 in the neighborhood (family) more than doubles the fun, I'll bet. I could see that happening here. Hmmm...
Picked up some 90 degree EMT elbows and cut them in half. The plenum is 16ga with 1/8" thick flanges. I still have the end flanges to add. The top plate will probably be aluminum. Haven't determined what carbs I'll use. I've been getting good advice here and through PM's. Thanks everyone. The manifold design is adapted from Leo Santucci's Chevy 6 manual. The plenum is probably too big but I can stuff it with something if that proves to be true.
Still debating about how to run the exhaust pipes. Opinions anyone?
Bob, let me know how your manifold works out. I tried one similiar, but used full length emt bends, and it kept flooding the #3, #4 and #5 cylinders with fuel. #1, #2 and #6 were perfect and the other three were running too fat.
I ran my pipes right under my manifold and used emt on them and rolled them toward the back and angle cut them.
The local tech inspector here said that my safety loop needed some extra bracing and I had to install a tube "anti rotatioal devise"to prevent the rear axle coming up thru the seat.Can you believe this.
Are you running springs on the rear?
If not and it is welded, how can it rotate??
If your running springs, how can you make something that keeps the rear end from rotating and not bind the spring??
I think some of these guys are trying to make it a whole lot more complicated than it is.
I understand the safety aspect of all of this, but they need to realize, we are not running 10 second cars here.
I'd be asking the tech inspector-- as politely as possible-- to show me the rule in the book that applies to my car.
When I went thru tech the inspector say's my car is an A/MODIFIED DRAGSTER.Yeh right.All 100 hp screaming flathead.I run a solid mount rear end and a piece of 5" tube over the drive shaft , this fit over the rear trans. housing and over the pinion flange on the rear end.this is weld to the floor braces, and has a removable lower half to access the drive shaft.So if anything was to let loose this huge tube would hold all in place anyhow.
Some of these TECH guys are stepping out of bounds as far as the rules go..The cars run between 12-15 sec.. Your chassis does NOT have to be certed untill you run faster than 9.99 sec, Yes you do have to have the necessary roll cage (NOT BAR) and up to date belts etc. As far as them telling you model A frame rails are not sufficiant. Thats none of their business. They are only suppost to check for proper safety gear.. Sometimes these guys are like cops, You give them a clip board and a Badge and they turn into Wally Parks..Don't let these guys harass ya..Its not up to them to tell you how your car can or can not be constructed. As long as you follow the saftey rules for cars 10 sec and slower. Which most of us have...
Got a rubbing block for the pitman arm cross shaft, a firewall and most of the steering pieced together.
Driver's view of home made steering device carved from scrap iron. It will be mounted on a quick disconnect. There is a space conflict between the shifter & the steering butterfly.
Rej, thanks for the heads up regarding fuel distribution. I haven't made a carb selection yet, it will be based on availability (read: cheap). I'd like 3 carbs so they need to be pretty small.
Just a guess but I think the techs at any strip in the country may be looking for just a tad more weld on those frame joints.
Seriously, the practice of only tacking it together 'til you get most of the parts located is showing far too much common sense.
Again, looking good.
Remember on your plenum don't go overboard. Add up all the runners and the plenum and don't have more than 75% of the cubic inches of the engine. You will lose all your low end if it is to big but it will scream at 7000 to 10,000 rpm. Roy
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