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HA/GR in Minnesota

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by bobw, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. Joe Hamby
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 405

    Joe Hamby
    Member

    Hi Bob. How long are your legs and anyone else that might drive it? Use lots of blocks and clamps to make sure it all fits. and has the look that you want. Chrysler bell housings are deeper than the other and the tranny's are different lengths. My drive shaft is only about 5 in center to center on the u-joints. My bell housing is long, the tranny is long. so I had a drive shaft made as short as possible and set it all in together and made sure that there was room for me and my 30 in inseam. Joe
     
  2. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,497

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Howdy,

    I finally got out a tape and measured some things on our car. The engine's 29" from the front face of the primary pulley on the damper to the bellhousing flange.
    You'll need to add 1.5" to that for a waterpump snout and another 1" for fan blades if you run those.

    The three speed bell is 7.5" from flange to gearbox and I believe the four speed and the combination bells are the same.

    I believe I'd estimate the pedals (with travel) from this, figure it up for your leg range requirements and just whip up a driveshaft to fit the gearbox you find later on.

    Anyway, as Joe noted, the gearboxes vary from year to year and model to model.
    They're fairly easy to shorten though. :D

    I also think you'll find the 3.70 rear to be well geared for average 15" tire sizes. Should put you in the eyes between 4500 & 5000, not too bad for a stock cam.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2009
  3. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    It's not worth a picture, but I filled 98 holes in my frame today. All ground smooth. I'll have black snot for a few days.
    Thanks to Joe, Old6 and Drewfus for all the information. Drewfus sent many pics and dimensions in a PM to me. I had to divide all his dimensions by 24.5 to get them into inches.:D
    I hauled the borrowed JD2 (squared) tube bender home today, and with the dimensional information you guys provided, I am ready to bend pipe! Just watched a video on utube on calculating stretch, so I shouldn't ruin too much material.
    In order to run at the local NHRA tracks I need to make the cage area pretty faithful to the rule book. I'm hoping that by making it quite upright it will look old style. When the body panels go on I will try to cover the pipe in a way that makes it look like a 50's build.
     
  4. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    Err, isn't the conversion for mm => Inches 25.4?

    Typo?

    Not trying to nit pick, but I figure you want the most out of that data Drewfus gave you.

    But then maybe I'm remembering it wrong?
     
  5. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    I brought the borrowed JD2 tubing bender home today. Two 2 by 8's were lagscrewed to the base. I made a very long cheater bar (rusty in the pic) because I'm, small, old and weak and I didn't know how much force it would take to bend the tubing. After reading the instructions several times, I bent a test piece to 90 degrees. Then I read the instructions a bunch more times to be sure I could make a hoop with two bends the correct distance apart. I made the firewall hoop and it came out right! I made a few more pieces before calling it a day.
     
  6. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    The tape line is roughly where the shoulder tube will run. The Kirkey seat needs to be cut down to look more vintage. Tomorrow I'm borrowing a tubing notcher so I can keep rolling along.
    nexxussian, yep 25.4, that's what I used.

    Oh, the truck in the background is a Grandpa/Grandson project.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2009
  7. esfoder
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 119

    esfoder
    Member
    from Oregon

    Great to see you passing the knowledge down a generation Bob!!
    Some of the best times in my life were with my Grandparents.
     
  8. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    I borrowed a bell housing and measured a long tailshaft Mopar 3 speed that was frozen in the snowbank at my friend Farmer Don's. Those measurements along with advice from you guys helped me locate the firewall hoop. From there I was able to build the shoulder bar and the uprights that connect it to the frame. Thanks to Brian at King Chassis, who by way of the HAMB gave me the info on splicing the shoulder bar in the NHRA accepted manner.
     
  9. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,497

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Did you allow for expansion when the gearbox thaws? :D


    It's looking good, keep on truckin'.
     
  10. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Things had gone smoothly to this point so I got cocky and started bending a top roll bar hoop without referring to the layout instructions. Thought I remembered how. So, It's another trip to the steel yard tomomorow. After that, I tackled something simple, cutting out the boxing plates.
    Are any of you using a hydraulic clutch? Not a hydraulic throwout bearing, but a master and slave cylinder? Recommendations are appreciated.
     
  11. Joe Hamby
    Joined: Jun 6, 2005
    Posts: 405

    Joe Hamby
    Member

    I think that I heard that a lot of ford pickups have them, if so they should be in a lot of salvages. Joe
     
  12. iagsxr
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 128

    iagsxr
    Member

  13. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    Sorry for creating confusion regarding a hydraulically operated clutch. I'm familiar with them and have one in a 250 Chevy 6 powered '35 International. I was interested if anyone has used one in HA/GR or other drag car. Are they as positive and quick in terms of actuating as mechanical linkage? That's my main interest. Thanks to those who have provided information however.
     
  14. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,497

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    With each set up properly I can't tell a difference.
    I've seen'em in drag cars of all sorts.

    And I seriously doubt the clutch arm gives a rusty fuck. :D

    Coincidentally the last one I used was also in an old International. :cool:
     
  15. REJ
    Joined: Mar 4, 2004
    Posts: 1,612

    REJ
    Member
    from FLA

    bobw, I am using a hydraulic clutch in my set up. It came out of an 87 dodge pickup and I am also using the tranny out of that truck.
    I have tried the car three speeds(several people are using them with no problems), but I keep on tearing them up. The truck four speed(granny low) holds up better although it weighs about 75-80 pounds more than the car.
    I have had no problems with the clutch.
     
  16. Will dig out the part numbers tonight (and photo's of the simple bracket holding the slave cylinder to the block), so far I've had no problems with my arrangement, pedal feels good, nice 'balance' of foot movement, with no bad habits thus far. Would have preffered mechanical link (just to reduce posibilty of clutch draging longer than needed), but space quickly runs out, and I found that the hydraulic unit serves my needs without being a hassle
     
  17. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Got most of the upper part of the cage bent and tacked in place. Also cut out the boxing plates and tacked them. Thanks everyone for hydraulic clutch info. I'll use it with confidence. My big problem is getting the driveline out of the junkyard. Old Al & his kid kinda go into hibernation for the winter.
     
  18. okay...
    so thats 2 cars on T rails....

    hmmmm...

    LOVE that wishbone crossmember!!!
    i'm gonna steal that idea.
     
  19. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,920

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    Your car looks GREAT! I know how intimidating bending is, my bender is homemade and I just "shake" when I grab a new piece of tube too bend:D
     
  20. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,174

    64 DODGE 440
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from so cal

    And they said it couldn't be done.:D

    Give a true hotrodder enough automotive junk and they will build a "real race car"!

    It ain't the parts that make it work, it's the inspiration.

    LOOKIN' GOOD Bob!!
     
  21. you said a mouthful, but i'm keeping mine shut...


    for now.....
     
  22. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    I finished the cage today and well...it's hideous. Tomorrow I'll start over. The rear vertical tubes will have less than a 90 degree bend in them. The front hoop will probably be replaced with one that angles back. Trying to look vintage and meet NHRA isn't easy.
     
  23. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,497

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Bobw,

    We did quite a bit of mocking-up in conduit before bending the actual pieces for our conversion to cage. Used 3/4" and a pipe bender and whenever we thought we were close we added the foam insulation to flesh out the tubes. It was a WHOLE lot cheaper that way. :cool:
     
  24. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    Old6, NOW you tell me! Using conduit is a great idea. Too bad I didn't think of it. I got the tubing for fifty cents a pound, off the shorts rack. four 7 foot lengths cost $23.00, so not too bad.
     
  25. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,497

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Yep, chorts is gud! :D
     
  26. the thing about that cage is that its almost as wide at the top as it is at the bottom (the uprights are VERTICAL).

    most altereds have around a 20" shoulder hoop and the ones with good looking cages are narrower at the top (uprights slighly angled IN towards center).

    the angled front hoop will make it look way less bulky.
     
  27. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    I deliberately kept everything vertical and square because I thought it would look like it was built years ago. Instead it looks like a cage for a piece of heavy equipment. I couldn't sleep last night because I wanted to get into the garage to cut that thing off and start over. Spent the morning on it and it looks much better to me. I'll post pics tonight.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2009
  28. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    I took a bunch of curve out of the rear vertical braces so they lean forward. Then I replaced the front hoop with a longer one the kicks out at the bottom and as a result has a rearward slant.
     
  29. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,368

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    A closer shot of the cage shows the difference. I'm pretty satisfied now, although it has proven darn near impossible to make it look vintage. The former forward hoop was cut down to make the cowl hoop. "Waste not, Want not". My sainted grandmother used to say that.
    I dug a mid-30's Chevy truck steering box out of the garage attic and will be making it a center steer unit tomorrow.
     
  30. 348chevy
    Joined: Apr 2, 2007
    Posts: 431

    348chevy
    Member

    You know it is hard to make the car look like they did in 1955 and still race in 2009. Especially when your only choice is an NHRA track. Those of us who were around in the 50's and 60's also remember that guys were getting killed left and right so there is a reason for some safety to be built into it. A friend of mine Don Nicholson raced a fuel dragster with his brother before he became famous racing Super Stock. His brother drove the car and it got loose on the top end and flipped. Don's brother was killed and Don never put together another dragster. The single hoop roll bar was the thing back then but was going out by 1960. We can still have a good nostalgia look and still have a second hoop in front of our face. I don't think that we will get the speeds up to where we need a funnycar style cage but a couple of extra bars will make it so we are less likely to have a very sad ending to a rollover.:) Roy
     

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