The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, Mar 23, 2016.
Spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and customs to miscreants world wide.
This. When you tell somebody 'traditional', their instinctive thought is often the hot rodder way of taking their old junk and making it faster by scavenging from anything currently available. If they did it then, then why can't folks do it now?
The rules of the game must be clearly defined, else folks are learning as they go and posting OT stuff.
'Period Correct' or another term must be coined to mean something silly like 'You're stuck in 1963 and you have to build your car out of what would have been available then'. Of course you have to factor in an allowance for modern safety equipment , tires, brake lines and such but us kids need to know where the edge of the yard is so we don't step out into the street when playing. Make it short, like a business motto that shows up at the top of the page every time we go to post a new topic.
I have many varied interests and automotive ADHD ranks high among them. That said, this is one of the most active forums I've found which tells me that you must be "doing it right". There are always other places for the O/T posts. (I think many people want to share their work with the largest audience so they try to do it here.)
I don't think period correct is the all in answer. It's possible to narrow your desires right here by using the traditional hot rods/customs pages. Those that want things "just so" are better off there. The general discussion forum gets broad enough to treat everyone to what's really great about this shit. A car that has "the look" but may be hiding some modern/safety features doesn't get tossed and is sincerely welcomed. I posted my build there because I went with a Powergen vs a straight flathead generator and 6V system. I want a kickin sound system hidden in it too along with a phone charge port. It is a new millennium so we do what we do. Respect for the old ways means you hide it within, and sharing how that's done is as traditional as it gets. As far as what else chaps my ass a little is that "...do it all yourself..." as if you hired something out you're not for real, or you don't "get it". Bullshit. Barris, Winfield, Hanna, Nancy, and too many more to list got where they did doing what we love for others. Like I said in my 1st reply, this can be as hard to get your head around or as easy. It's up to you to think it through before you post it up. I do more stock or OEM restoration than anything else but I don't put all of it here. I will if it's unique or has a feature that inspires, the rest I can share elsewhere. Just sayin...
theHIGHLANDER, you might have pinpointed it with 'respect for the old ways'. Can that knowledge of what the old way is be somehow captured so the newbie knows the line? Or perhaps just bouncing folks when they haven't taken the time to learn or pay attention is just the way it needs to continue since it seems to have been working.
As long as we're having the discussion, and everyone has been very civil,
I have a great deal of respect for cars built under an extreme budget, I see nothing wrong with driving cars that are still under construction, and I see the value in preserving cars (or even just certain aspects of them) that are less than perfect because redoing them would lose some history or some special character that the car has.
But a line is crossed when a car is built intentionally to look rough, either for shock value or because it's the trend. It's hard to define, but that's where I feel the historically accurate/preservationist ends and something else begins.
I like the 1965 cut-off date because it fits my personal experience; I got off active duty in 1965 and took up flying. Not enough money to spend on both airplanes and cars - the airplanes won out. As for O/T stuff, I posted what I thought was a neat video of how a radial engine works a few months ago, because, well, it was an internal combustion engine. It didn't last 10 minutes.......Oh well......
This place takes me back to a time long ago, and that time was good.
Very well written Ryan.
I'm just wondering which pain is growing faster? The pain of people complaining if their threats are blocked/deleted or the pain of people who want to keep TJJ and HAMB as it was?
Anyway, be proud of your excellent work. Definitely something I am a bit jealous of
Thanks for not deleting my post, my car doesn't fit the criteria of custom or traditional.........just glad I found this Web site after my one and only post after a few replies my problem with my 390fe was solved, I'm a member of a Thunderbird forum and the replies I was receiving on that site were just guessing and might be....thank you H.A.M.B, keep on building guys
Well said, I had 1 post removed and did not get mad or pissed after looking again I was wrong!
Well Boy Howdy, here's the best idea I've heard all week. Inject something new into the conversation, like genuine, intelligent, innovative, gracious, and humble . . .
It's echoed again and again why we're here, but I think it's also refreshing that in this day and age of the assumption that "if I pressure or threaten you you must cave in" that Ryan's resolve is solid. So thank you for the Jalopy Journal, for the HAMB, and for your resolve to keep your vision and not water down the values espoused here. Thank you!
Ryan, you are doing EXACTLY what you should with the site - I've bounced around here since about '97 when JJ was pretty simple and have loved the focus from day one. Those that don't get it need to understand - a tall order nowadays I know but there are lots of other places for what is considered off-topic here.
Kudos for creating and then maintaining this community in times when caving to the pressures of new members would maybe be the easier route.
Everything I'm working on right now is OT. I don't post it here.
I'm on this board because the tech and fab are the best out there.
I've got a HAMB friendly waiting in the wings. I try to contribute what I know and have learned from working on the other projects I've been involved in.
This site is what it is -focused -at times fussy, its not for everyone. Some will get offended, some won't get it. Fuck 'em they can go play golf.
and to think I was thinking this in about 1982 but of course I built my share of 1940 Ford's long before that....mostly AMT....
Ryan, keep the HAMB pure and don't let in! Some people just don't "get it" is an accurate statement. Just like some people don't know how to dress appropriately for certain occasions or speak with tact. Remember when people in the 80's were building chopped Mercs with airbrushed murals of the "Last stop ( JD, Elvis, Marilyn) Diner" on the trunk lid and saying the car was built "just like in the 50's"?
Something you might consider going forward is to have a filter on new member signup handles that would prevent someone from signing up a new account with a user name that included "non HAMB friendly terms". Similar to the DMV vanity plate application filters that look for abbreviated foul language, etc.
If you're known as "RaunchyRatrodRonnie666" and have no problem signing up with that handle here, Ronnie may think it implies that the HAMB has given him the green light to talk RR's. In his first post, he mentions RR, gets called on it and thinks we're a group of elitist snobs. He packs off as an ignorant hater.
Any new handle with Rat Rod, Billet, Pro Touring, Camaro, VW, Chevelle, etc, etc. would get kick backed with a brief message and a link to the HAMB rules and guidelines.
(disclaimer: My car interests are very diverse. I own a Chevelle but wouldn't consider (or insist on) using Chevelle anywhere in my handle here)
Well written Ryan.
Ryan, I've been with the Hamb a long time! I enjoy what it is and what it stands for. My opinion is --- you've got it right and have done a great service to all of us on the Hamb! Thanks. Bob. Ps I like mc's ,Vw's ect but would not try to use this site for them,there are other forums for that
Kudos on a great site. I'm historically an "Oooooooh shiny!" type of car guy (AKA billet and such), but since I started picking through the incredible amount of content on everything traditional here, I find myself undeniably hooked on traditional hot rods. I don't "advertise" my '57 because it's not traditional although I have often wondered about converting it, but I'm too far in for that. I've had a post or two removed, but I get it and someday will build something traditional. Keep up the guideline patrolling and purity of the site. Rich
Just a suggestion, the mobile HAMB app has the "rules" under stickies. Maybe it should be right up there in the beginning like it is online. It's easy to pass up the stickies and not read the rules of the site. I think more people are using the app and not bothering with the stickies. Maybe it needs to be in their face more.
Thanks for the gentle reminder of what this site is all about and for putting up with us assholes all these years. I lurked a long time before I finally had the nerve to introduce myself in 2002 and have been hooked ever since. A lesser man that didn't have your love and passion for old hot rods would chucked this a long time ago or been locked up in a rubber room. Thanks again for all you do for us.
Thats as close as I've ever seen things put! Being my self a bit old an having built rods n customs in the 1950s n 60s,an some for others,plus did the shows with my own rods all around Florida n Ga. back then, put a view of what was going on some what bigger then those limited too one town. Yes it was really well put,thanks.
I try from time to time to add a little,a few techs n views from the way I saw it then an do now. Keeper going!
'You're stuck in 1963 and you have to build your car out of what would have been available then': I could live with that, provided it includes potentially any amount of scratch fabrication and broadly-informed but off-the-wall lateral thinking, as might have happened in 1963. It's not so much pre-1963 (or whatever year) parts which are important, but 1963 creativity - which is obviously going to work around parts already familiar in 1963, but is not incapable of imagining parts which weren't available but could be made in a decent small shop in 1963. And, having exercised your 1963 (or whatever) imagination, if you find even a much more recent lump of metal useful for making your part, so be it.
This attitude of, 'You're stuck in 1963 and you have to build your car out of what would have been available then, using only wrenches and screwdrivers,' has to stop. Indeed it suggests a distinctly non-traditional mail-order way of thinking.
Where I admittedly depart from the HAMB ethos is in imagining alternative technological timelines, i.e. what would the modern product have been if not for this or that agenda or situation. I'm interested in what we here regard as the "traditional" era because it contained the origins of the historical deviation from what to my mind the modern automobile ought to have been; but not yet the full flowering, if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor (even if it's all roughly botanical), of the rot - and because thousands of hot-rodders and tinkerers had a more or less conscious sense of something in the history which needed to be fixed. But be that as it may.
Ned, I have some fond memories of when "the music died" in strict HAMB speak, the music being hot rods and kustoms. Hot rods became available on the showroom floor. Kustoms were being made out of bathtubs, phone booths, and anything else that would cause shock and awe on the indoor show floor. Bondo replaced lead and a bunch of nice custom builds simply didn't last the test of time with all that excess plastic. I've said it before, outside of these pages "tradition" in a strict sense for me was when Big Daddy Don made the rear engine dragster work. Savage warriors of the 1/4 mile with their legs wrapped around 2000+ HP fed by nitromethane, gone in 6 seconds. I know that's just one thing from our best days, and begging a little pardon for politics, the govt and insurance industry did their best to castrate that which we all loved. Chrysler gave em a single finger for 1 more year, the rest fell in line and followed "orders" to reduce performance 1st, a few years later emissions too. Then the oil embargo stuck a fork in "us". Rebels with a cause made things happen and were all frowned upon in towns from coast to coast, and frankly we didn't, and still don't, give a shit. This forum isn't all mine and I'm glad, but it is "ours". I mentioned respect for the old ways, I noticed I was asked how to put that in a way more could understand. This is as close as I can get. And while we tend to like the more nasty aspects like open exhaust and raw construction, the rebellious or hoodlum nature of old, the reality is that some of the nicest most helpful folk ever can be found doing what "we" do. I guess I always liked that too, genuine good people willing and ready, but crossed ready for anything. I'm done...I think?
Wow, a lot of great posts and opinions. Some of you have missed your calling.
I have been here a relatively short time and had posts deleted for being off topic or for just being a smart ass. That's fine with me, its all good. My interests vary and my current ride will never be considered period correct. That being said, I understand what this site is about and enjoy the build and tech threads. I now keep the posts on topic and try and help out when I can.
As for being an alliance member, its not a pay to preach deal. Its more of a thank you to all the people that have helped me along the way and shared some amazing talents. At least that's how I see it.
I came to this site AFTER deciding to "fix up" an old truck. Had no idea what a traditional hot rod was and just started posting cause it was an old car forum, or so I thought. I got my share of butthurtness, but as it turned out, I realized that most of what was discussed here really was in line with what I liked, I just didnt realize it at the time. If I could do it all over again I would still buy a truck (truck guy always and forever) but might have made some different choices. I have learned so much for no cost to me whatsoever, weather it be how to do certain things, best places to buy from, what to look for, how things should be and on and on, and for that I will be eternally grateful. I feel like I am finally past the newb phase and more of an amature in my mind anyway. I can go to shows and instantly appreciate the build quality of certain vehicles from this new knowledge and hope to pass that on to my kiddos, if only so they can appreciate things being done right.
I was actually hesitant to buy an alliance membership initally as I didnt want to be the "waterboy" on the team that everyone just put up with, but when I asked Ryan if he'd be cool with it I felt he was genuine when he said he'd be honored to have my support. And the little card that comes with the plaque was just more proof of that. I dont put the HAMB tag on my truck to be "in with the cool guys", I do it as a show of support for what Ryan and his "miscreants" have done for ME by putting in the effort to run this place.
I may not have a deuce coupe and I may be sporting a "belly button", but hey, at least I know what one is now!
Well, this has been pretty well thrashed out, and I agree with all those who appreciate this forum and Ryan's and others' work to make it available to us.
Hot Rodding has always been a situation where guys would lighten their cars and add horsepower, one way or another. They would build parts as necessary, with whatever tools and knowledge they could bring to bear on the project, and buy whatever they couldn't make.
Everyone's situation is different. Some here are professional restorers/rod builders with extensive machinery at their disposal, and others of us are trying to build cars we will have fun driving, without much in the way of equipment. We all have the same goal in mind, which is to do the best job we can with the means we have available.
I have to disagree with those who look down their noses at buying some specialty parts from Speedway, Summit, or any of the other vendors. My first car was a Model A Coupe Hot Rod I built from parts in 1962-63. I bought the body, frame, and some fenders, and a '46 Ford front axle, suspension, and steering, all for $25. But I also bought several non-stock parts for it, including an adapter to mate a 430 Lincoln to a Packard overdrive tranny. If it hadn't been for JC Whitney, I couldn't have made that happen.
Seems to me, the HAMB will return as much as an individual User is willing to put in ( I mean in as much as a User is willing to invest in time and being involved )
So putting all kinds of easy to read banners and selecting people out on their Usename or Avatar, is just dumbing the HAMB down and bringing it to the level of the people who want to invest nothing.
When I joined, it seemed there was a group of goons ready to jump the new Users in.
I hated that system.
But doing this might be just as bad.
Its my personal opinion that it should be easy to join the HAMB, but once you are proven to be an idiot, hard to stay.
See it as the first stage of an ongoing aptitude test...
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