I'm looking for pics. of Gassers with dropped tube axles "hair pins"with coil over shocks. The more detailed the better. Much Thanks
I don't have any pics for you but I do know that Ohio George ran coil overs on his Willys back when they were still not considered legal( I think around '62 but don't hold me to that). he got the company that made them ( I think Monroe) to call them stock replacement shocks. Nothing but OEM suspension was acceptable in NHRA gas class up to '64. I think that '65 was when they changed the ruling on that maybe '66. Anyway if you search Ohio George Mongomery you may find some good pics.
Ok ,to get technical here, I know you didn't ask for this ,but a tube axle does not allow twist, like when driving up in a parking lot or something similar. The Hairpins are mounted by three points, they need the axle to twist, because of their design they resist conforming to a tube axle. I beam axles do allow twist and work reasonably well with hairpins. A tube axle needs the flexibility that a four bar, four link ,allows. Four links need some sort of a track locator link to locate the front axle and keep it from moving side to side though. So the heavier the car the more prononuced the tube axle , hairpin arrangement will will show its shortcomings. If you want the Tri Five forums have a special section on gassers and have a ton of info and pics included. Tons of stuff on the Two Lane Blacktop, Graffitti cars also, they had coilovers. Hope this helps.
Joe just a question or a mention of something that I have noticed? Seems like whenever someone is using coil overs that a panhard bar or watts link is always part of the equation. I am not sure that hairpins would not work to control side travel anyway. In your opinion or experience would the hair pins do away with a panhard bar?
It depends how close they are together at the rear, the more Triangulated they are the more they resist letting the axle move. If they are mounted out wide on the frame they allow a lot of sway. Another thing that comes into play is the type of steering, a frame mounted drag link style tries to push the axle forwards and backwards when you steer. A side steer ,or cross steer tries to move the axle right and left when you steer. A cross spring resists this very well most of the time but a coilover car has no resistance to this movement.
Ha, never even considered the type of steering into the equation. The hair pins would eliminate the forward backward motion and I imagine if they were angled out far enough they would help control side motion. I think on George's Willys he used the original main leaf from the cross leaf. I have seen several alterds set up that way over the years as well. I am guessing that it is for axle location.
I got into a spitting ( politically correct ) contest on another forum about single cross spring vrs. two parallel leafs for a gasser front end. Whats hard for most people to believe is that radius rods,ladder bars ,hairpins ,ect are in fact like putting a sway bar on. With three mounting points they resist the twist of the axle ,making the axle like a sway bar. To look at a single center spring mount you would think that it would rock side to side uncontrollably. But it doesn't because the hairpins ,radius rods actually turn the axle into a sway bar. When building a drag car the ladder bar is a simple ,easily installed ,very forgiving setup wise rear suspension. People who install a four bar ,four link are surprised when they have a lot of body roll under acceleration. If your into fine tuning a four link is the way to go but most people never adjust them nor know how. The hot setup for years on stock Gm chevelles ,gutlass ,was to run a air bag in the passengers rear coil to try to stop the roll. The owners of the single cross spring gasser style front axles that I contacted all said they loved the way their car drove and all but one said he would build another one the same way. Maybe thats why you see so many of them.
LOl you are not kidding about ladder bars turning an axle into a sway bar. I knew a guy over in Wyandot County that had a Mustang with ladder bars and if he didn't get a run at it would get stuck trying to drive up a driveway until we put a locker in it. He would lift a wheel and it would just spin. LOL I have built a few competition style 4 links over the years. I actually like the way that they drive on the street and do not have a problem tuning one. It is more then just the suspension links and most people don't understand that, spring rate plays a big role in it. The best one for ease of tuning I ever built used bags from a Lincoln. it was originally built with Fox body rear springs and they were too stiff but when we pulled the springs and put the Lincoln bags in their place we could adjust spring rate. That allowed us to load one side more then the other and get it to squat when we needed it to squat, and never ever have to change a spring.
LOL I have known guys with ladder bars who never change the settings and they only got 3 holes to play with most of the time. The whole idea behind adjustability is so that you can tune it if you're not going to bother then it is a total waste of money.
Thats one of the downfalls of current bracket racing. Its easier to change your delay box or dial in than it is to change the car. My great grandson is getting interested in the jr. dragsters, so he is my hope if I can stick around long enough.Local track going thru reorganization,tracks closing all over the country for a lot of reasons. Just not the young lions out there coming into the sport, too much work ,too much money.
Too much money for sure. I don't hang with bracket racing never have. I got to laugh, they used to have the highschool drags at the local track once a year. it was to try and gets kids interested in drag racing. it was a bracket deal. my racing buddy for years started out at the high school drags, his dad took him to watch they drove his mom's 4 cylinder Monza. he decided he wanted to race so his dad paid the entry they teched and he ran for his dial in for the evening. He was running like a 17 and change and he won because he was consistent. he still has the trophy and is proud of it. Granted he has run 9s since then and won some bigger trophies but his high school drags trophy is still the one he tells about.
I'm Ok with bracket racing, drag racing would have probably been gone if they hadn't come up with something. It is not spectator friendly and the spectators are who pays the bills. It levels the playing field a lot ,other wise whomever has the most money usually wins. I attend local Tractor pulls ,mostly because I know the pullers.
I first became acquainted with bracket racing when I was first pitting for netz. he was running a d stock '57 Chevy and I guess he had a 12.9 dial in. I had no idea what that meant but his timing didn't sound right so I tweaked it between runs. Well he broke out. I knew it wasn't timed right. Once he got over being mad at me for changing his timing he asked me if I wouldn't be interested in being his tuner. So it worked out all right.
I tried that first. Didn't see one with coil overs, also I need detailed photos, But thanks for the help.
Looks like a later, more current car. Coil overs, panhard bar, anx it "looks" like a triangulated 4 bar setup? The frame ends appear to be mounted and angled seperately? Am I seeing this right? Sounds more like we're talking about a rear suspension, doesn't it? Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Beano. I know this topic is on front solid axle setups, but forgive me ignorance. When you mentioned weird handling with a 4 bar setup, specifically the mustang story. Were you refer in to a real parallel 4-link? I've seen and ridden in more than a few street rods with a parallel rear setup and everything was just dandy. No weird handling or excess body roll.
On the Mustang I was talking about ladder bars and the fact that it is not very forgiving on the street, when he would hit a driveway or a speed bump at an angle it would lift one wheel until we got a locker in the open rear end could not pull him with one wheel off the ground. I like a 4 link on the street, I am not a big fan of triangulated 4 link because they are not a competition suspension and are not adjustable as a rule, it is install it and done. Even on the front end a 4 link is cool function wise I don't care for the looks of one but they function real well. Actually from a pure function standpoint that work way better for a front suspension that anything that we build.
I first went drag racing with parallel rear four bar...While it was fine on the street at the track it sucked, too much wheel hop [breaking narrowed 31 spline axles], no planting, no instant center ..Tried stiffer shocks and no improvement..Luckily I built the brackets for the four bar with lots of extra holes..I moved the front of the top bars down two holes and the rear up two holes..That did it, got all the bite I needed and in effect created ladder bars [approx 60" long, never really checked] with enough flexibility to be comfortable on the street and still running, 39 years latter....
Seb I usually start with my instant center about center chassis and 4-6" off the ground. Springs behind the axle usually works best for me but I have run them with the springs on top. With the springs behind the axle it takes less spring to control it. One of the things that I discovered is that I like a stiffer spring for street driving then for launching. I discovered that a little squat goes a long ways as far as standing up and cutting a straight line is concerned. That is why I liked my Lincoln bag setup so well, we could drive to the track let a little air out and go racin' then add a little air and drive home. Some tracks actually required a little more air, and a different instant center setup, depending on track surface and design, or the lack there of. We used to go to a track that had a dip in one lane pretty near to the 1/8 mile mark for instance, with the softer springs when you hit it the car wanted to get away from you so we added air and moved our instant center a little closer to the ground. Lots of time involved learning to tune one but once you get it, man is it a sweet setup.
We always set up the four links the same way. Imaginary line meeting at the base of the front tire. A lot of times this ended up to be a good setup even after trying several variations.
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