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Technical Front End ID, Brake Ideas

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Barry D, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. Hi, I traded for this little hotrod over the summer and am not very familiar with some of the terminology and interchangeability of some of the parts. I'm hoping you guys can tell me what this type of front end is commonly refered to as and what type of brake set up I can put on it (disc or drum). Also, how would I know what spindles are on it?
    With the spindle mount front wheels, a Chevy 454, 4-speed, and a 9 inch rear and only rear manual drum brakes, it gets hairy coming to a stop in traffic sometimes. All help is appreciated!

    I will be removing the spindle wheels so I can put brakes on it if I find out what type of setup I can use.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  2. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,403

    manyolcars

    take a front wheel off and look at the spindle. If it doesnt look like a Ford, its probably chevy :)
     
  3. The front suspension is commonly known as a suicide front end.

    I believe they are Ford,possibly 35-40 but if they are you wont be able to add brakes to the spindle mount front wheels.

    You can mount drums or adapt disc brakes.

    The spindles have been swapped from side to side. HRP
     
  4. Someone spent a lot of time in the speedway catalog. '37 style spindles with bolt on arms. Many disk and drum brake options but none that'll work with those wheels.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

  5. titus
    Joined: Dec 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,072

    titus
    Member

    yep, aftermarket tube axle, 37-41 ford spindles, bolt on super bell steering arms and a set of 12 spoke spindle mounts.

    Actually i beleive some one out there is make replica hurst/airheart type disc brake set ups again, but not sure.

    basically there are mounting holes that are drilled into the rim next to where the seal goes and a rotor bolts on, then theres a bracket that goes on the spindle that the caliper bolts onto.
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Ditch the spindle mount wheels. Sell them to some other fool. Early Ford juice brakes, and drums will do the trick.

    Perfect time to do a full wheel and tire swap.
     
  7. and please get shot of the draglink and tie rod - the nuts are welded on to provide a thread for the tie rod ends !!!!



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  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Oh dear. I just switched from the smarty phone to the computer to have a better look.

    NONE OF THE STEERING ON THIS CAR IS SAFE!

    Do not drive it until this has been properly fixed!
     
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And both the tie rod and drag link appear to be black pipe.
     

  10. Gimpy's , should we mention the ass backwards ackerman as well or not go there ? .... :(



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  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    At this point, he's more likely to be killed before he ever notices the Ackerman angle issue.

    Unless pushing a wheel is what causes the tie rod to fail, and kill him.
     
  12. Looks like it's powered by BBC... I can see why the OP is keen to have some front brakes . There is a scrub line issue with the way that front spring is mounted also .




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  13. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yup. This needs a total re-work. New, higher suicide perch. Move the spring up. Re-do the shackle mounts on the bones. That should free up the space to put the tie rod where it belongs. Correctly constructed tie rod and drag link tubes, with proper tie rods. Front brakes. Plus fixing everything else that is probably done to the same level of quality on this one.

    Oh, and bones on a tube. It needs a real beam axle.
     
  14. Boy Barry won't be excited when he gets back here. Much safer but not happy.
    I agree there's lots more work than just brakes as in all of it.
    It might be the pic angle, but the caster looks backwards too.
     
  15. doinbad
    Joined: Sep 17, 2012
    Posts: 323

    doinbad
    Member
    from celina tn

    The way the pic looks might not be,but to me looks like axle is in backwards and leaning foward
     
  16. F-6Garagerat
    Joined: Apr 12, 2008
    Posts: 2,652

    F-6Garagerat
    Member

    Wow. Not cool. I would be taking a long hard look at everything else on that car. The rear suspension can't be much better. Wow.
     
  17. WOW! As well as this little thing drives and rides, I had no idea there was so much wrong with it. I guess that's why I asked the experts though. Like I said, I'm not very familiar with these. Looks like I will be doing some research and looking for some new parts. And to think, the guy I got it from had a BBC with a blower in it.

    Maybe I should ditch the whole suicide front end and put in a spring over axle to move it back and shorten it up a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  18. F-6Garagerat
    Joined: Apr 12, 2008
    Posts: 2,652

    F-6Garagerat
    Member

    You could. Then you would know everything is safe. It will look better too.
     
  19. That's going to raise the front end up quite a bit too.

    Start with a tape measure.
    Get the spring mounts into the center of the bones.
    Raise the perch the same distance.
    Does that all fit ??

    If so you can turn the tie rod around to the back where it belongs & fix the Ackerman and have room for brakes.

    Split Bones and a tube axle isn't the best combo.
    Hairpins and a tube is better.
    Bones and ford beam axle is better still.

    You should check the castor and see if its off or just the pictures.
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am hoping that the caster issue is just a camera issue.

    Please don't take me for negative. I want you safe and sound, and in your rod.
     
  21. I agree a re-work is the answer . Better to be safe than sorry . As mentioned above , re work the front perch , get the tie rod at the rear of the axle to correct the ackerman and consider running an I beam axle rather than the tube one . A tube axle will not twist like an I beam will , and with split 'bones or hairpins you need it to be able to twist a little .
    Once sorted I'm sure you will have a fun little Hotrod .




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  22. abonecoupe31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2005
    Posts: 696

    abonecoupe31
    Member
    from Michigan

    It took me a while to get the front end dialed in on my 1928 Ford Woodie. I used disc brakes out of the Speedway catalog. Also their spindles, kingpins, and tie rod &ends. Good enough quality to suit my driver quality car. Bolt on steering arms from Chassis Engineering in IA. Wheel adapters to fit 35 Ford V8 wires. From Don McLeans company in CA. Geezer memory won't work today. I replaced stock steering with a Unisteer r&p and love it. Crafty B retapered my arms so I could run tie rod on top of the stock but modified wishbone to accommodate more caster and a 46" wide Borrgeson dropped
    4" axle. I have ride height finally where I want it but a little too much toe in still. Be patient it takes a while and a lot of pain in my sore back. Now I can get out the cardboard & design my shock mounts!

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  23. So, typically it is ok to drill through the bones to mount the spring mounts? I'm assuming so since I've seen pictures of others that way.
     
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, but you will need to weld a sleeve in the hole, of fairly thick wall.

    Just a hole straight through will tear out immediately.

    I wish I were closer. This needs to be put right.
     
  25. Gimpy have you your answer.
    What you don't see is the internal sleeve. It's usually a good idea to add some external beef to the bones in the area of the thru spring mount. Some of these are simple and some are artistic works of art. Main thing is to beef up the bones.
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Damn. Just finished my first cup of coffee, and I noticed that it has no shocks, too.

    Please do not drive this. I'm serious.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I plate the inside and outside of the bones, too, with 1/8". Edge welded, and rosette welded to the bone tube, tapered way toward the back, and finished as to not be readily noticeable.

    In this case, given the weight of the engine, I would.
     
  28. I'm going to make changes to it after reading everyone's feedback, but I do know this car has been on the road for at least 3 or 4 years before I got it in August, and it does drive and ride great.
     
  29. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,911

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, but you are one weld, the area of one US Dime away from total loss of control of the vehicle. That is not enough overhead.

    If you need any help, a good friend of mine is the service manager at a classic car shop ~50 miles to the West of you. I can see of they can help.
     
  30. OK. Reworked my front end with a spring over axle, hairpins, and friction shocks. It raised the front up about 6 inches and the axle back about 4.5 inches. I was able to get the ackerman angle fixed and the steering underneath. I also got a new tie rod and drag link. The old ones that were supposed to be so dangerous were actually threaded all the way in (not just a nut welded on) and didn't flex as much as the new ones. I like it better with the front up higher and it still drives fine. Now, I still need to get front brakes on it and a different set of wheels/tires.
     

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