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Ford-O-Matic Not Shifting

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 50Poopbox, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. 50Poopbox
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 69

    50Poopbox
    Member

    SO my ford-o-matic is not shifting. I have read that it could be as simple as adjusting throttle linkage.
    I can manually shift it from L to D but it wont shift from 2nd to 3rd on its own. I have had the truck up to about 70 mph. The kickdown is not attached, would this possibly cause it?
    Does anyone have any pics of how the linkage is setup on a 59 F100 with a 292/FOM?
     
  2. Vacuume leak going to the modulator
     
  3. lowkroozer
    Joined: Jun 1, 2006
    Posts: 601

    lowkroozer
    Member

    Is it full of trans fluid ? Often overlooked
     
  4. shoprat
    Joined: Dec 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,109

    shoprat
    Member Emeritus
    from Orange, CA

    Didn't know a FORDO had a modulator
     
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  5. Ole don
    Joined: Dec 16, 2005
    Posts: 2,915

    Ole don
    Member

    If the kickdown is not connected, it may be laying in the kickdown position. Hook a spring on it in the opposite dirrection of its travel and try it.
     
  6. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member

    ford-o-matic doesnt have a kickdown it has a throttle pressure rod and if its not hooked up your trans wont shift right! I went thur this same thing,you need all the right linkage all the way from carb to trans the linkage bolts to intake and firewall and also need the rod , if you dont have it adjusted right(has a couple springs that have certain spring strengths and levers that makes it work)it wont shift right......i tried to piece all the parts together because my setup was a three-on-the tree originally and the trans i got didnt have the linkage with it and the parts are hard to find so i just ended up getting rid of the ford-o-matic and using a wilcap adapter and different auto trans since i couldnt get the linkage and wanted a better trans anyways...i was just trying to get the ford-o-matic to work cause it was a free trans....... without the trans shifting right with the throttle pressure rod hooked up you will eventually smoke the trans.... ....and also a ford-o-matic is a 2speed trans , it has a low gear that you only shift to when pulling a load or going up a hill, you start out and drive in the 2nd gear and then it shifts into the 3rd so theres three gears but you only drive with two of them, alot of people get confused and think there's three gears theres really only LOW(which most the time you dont use),1ST,2ND gear good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  7. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member

    And this will not work i tried it!!!!!! the throttle pressure rod works different then a kickdown,,, the throttle pressure rod works as your stepping on the gas pedal at a certain point the pressure tells the trans to shift up to the next gear (hence the name pressure throttle rod)....a kickdown is when you are driving and need to pass or speed up quickly and you quickly step on the gas pedal and the kickdown tells the trans to kickdown into lower gear (hence the name kickdown) without the throttle pressure rod hooked up the trans wont shift up into the next gear properly at the right time or at all...

    A ford-o-matic doesnt have a vacuum modulator that is on later model transmissions, a vacuum modulator does exactly what the throttle pressure rod is supposed to do,tells the trans when to shift properly this throttle pressure rod is what they used before they started using vacuum modulators.


    HERES a picture i found of the linkage(gray part with a screw driver sticking out of it)on a car as you can see it has some springs and brackets that work together to make it shift right, the linkage bolts to the intake and firewall on a car i assume its the same thing on a truck but might be a little different.....heres also a drawing on how it goes together:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    this one you can kinda see that it also bolts to firewall:
    [​IMG]
    and heres another drawing out of shop book:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
    Tri-power37 likes this.
  8. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    LostHope,.... That brought back memories !!

    4TTRUK
     
  9. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    LostHope,.... That brought back memories !!

    4TTRUK
     
  10. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member

    LOL Hahaha! I'm feeling stressed out just replying to this post having "deja-vu" of the frustration and hair pulling i went thur just to find this information out:eek:! Was pricey to do a wilcap adapter and diffrent trans but well worth it to ditch "pos-o-matic" and all the springs and linkage for a better trans.....
     
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  11. 50Poopbox
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 69

    50Poopbox
    Member

    LostHope... Let me start out by saying thanks for all that info. And then say F#*k!!!!

    Mine too, was a 223/3 speed that the owner before me dropped a 292/FOM into.

    What trans did you go with? What did it run total to convert? I was thinking of going with a C4 anyways. I guess I need to either find an old scrap truck or convert.
     
  12. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member

    well the 2nd y-block took a crap in my car so i was fed up and going to SBC 350/th350 it for reliability and how cheap and common chevy parts are and bought a rebuilt th350 trans with shift kit,trans cooler and lines,new torque converter,trans fluid,gennie shifter,lokar kick down cable,lokar braided dip stick,extra capacity air fluted transmission pan, as a package deal for $700....
    Then some family members got me a 272 y-block and ford-o-matic for my birthday so it was free motor abd trans ,so i dropped that in but ended up fighting trying to buy and find the linkage for the trans.I said screw it and bought the adapter and mopar mini-starter from wilcap to put the th350 trans i already had in for $800.
    Then i had to get my driveline lengthened with a chevy slip yoke and upsized to 3 inch so i had them make me a brand new one with all new u-joints for $300, so altogether it cost around $1800 to put a chevy th350 behind the y-block..........
    If i hadnt already purchased the th350 i would have gone with a adapter to put a c4 in if i knew i was getting a free y-block motor....but i still went with the th350 trans because i already had it, and everything to hook it up.
    I also was thinking long term down the road ,,if this y-block ever took a crap i could pull it out and take the adapter off and bolt in a sbc350 to the th350 trans and have a drivetrain thats reliable and can get parts for anywhere since its a daily driver.......Dont get me wrong i love my y-blocks but its cheaper for me to just swap in sbc350 if anything goes wrong.........
    This adapter allows you to bolt any gm trans like 700r4,th400,th350 onto the y-block so if the motor stays running and i want a overdrive or extra gear trans later i can just swap the th350 out down the road....
    Basically it will cost the same amount for adapter and trans and drivline to do a c4 since you have t redo everything i had to do for the th350 trans, but you have to factor in everything else to hook it up so id say just figure $2000 are ,thats if you want to keep the y-block,for almost the same price or a little more you could buy a used 302 and trans and swap it in......if i could do it all over again thats what i would do........
    If you just want to get driving find a Manuel three speed parts truck and swap the parts to your truck and to a three on the tree behind the y-block.....or floor shifter.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
    Old wolf likes this.
  13. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member


    HHmmm....seems to me at the bottom of this paragraph from wiki it says ford-o-matic has three forward gears but start in 2nd and shifts to third only use first if you shift down into it??????? maybe you should check your shit:eek: and if anybody wants conformation on what i have posted above type "throttle pressure rod" into the search function here at the yblocksforever fourm and there will be a number of threads on the same topic..... http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Default.aspx


    FordoMatic

    In 1948 Ford realized that it was late in introducing a fully automatic transmission to its automobile lineup. Ford Engineering Vice President Harold Youngren, recently hired away from Borg-Warner, recommended that Ford license and build a transmission using a design that he was working on at his previous employer. Ford and Borg-Warner signed a contract in 1948 which entered B-W into a supply agreement wherein they would build half of Fords transmissions for five years, with the other half either being built by Ford or by a different supplier. Because of this agreement, Ford licensed the design themselves and broke ground immediately on an assembly plant to build the remaining transmissions. The new plant was called Fairfax Transmission Plant and was dedicated in 1950. The original Ford-O-Matic accomplished two things Fords two previous automatic transmissions failed to do. Through the use of an integrated torque converter and planetary gearset, Fords automatic shifted smooth without an interruption in torque from the engine. The other was the shifting pattern was revised from PNDLR to PRNDL, which served to reduce "shift shock" when changing gears and reduce "torque shock" when trying to rock a stuck car back and forth. The original Ford-O-Matic, while capable of three forward speeds, started out in second and shifted to third with first only being used when selecting L on the gear shift column. The Ford-O-Matic was manufactured from 1951 until it was replaced by the C4 in 1964. <sup id="cite_ref-flory2008_0-1" class="reference">[1]</sup>

    It is always good tho to research the topic of the problem your having and not just take one persons advice or knowledge. There is a number of places to can find the answers to this thread heres a couple and then judge for yourself the answer :
    1. fordbarn.com
    2.yblocksforever.com
    3. the 52-56 ford social group here on the h.a.m.b
    4. shop manuals
    5. google
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
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  14. mutt423240
    Joined: Jan 14, 2009
    Posts: 176

    mutt423240
    Member

    have you changed the fluid recently? if so, take the govenor out and clean it. this would happen to me when i worked in a ford garage. good luck
     
  15. LostHope
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 687

    LostHope
    Member

    50poopbox i would go ahead and give what "rmt" is suggesting about speed shifting it and see if you can get it to work anything that gets you driving and without swapping alot of stuff but i pretty sure you still need the throttle pressure rod to make "speed shifting it work.

    rmt- i didnt mean to come off wrong saying "checking your shit"sorry about that I know what your talking about as far as shifting it and thats a way of getting thur the gears faster ,but your saying pretty much completely ignore what i said about the ford-o-matic, yes it has three forward gears but was designed to be driven as a two speed trans starting out in 2nd gear thats the only reason i quoted the "wiki" about the trans i can pull up the same info from other sites,so i think your wrong posting what you did above!For 50 years you may have been shifting ford-o-matics like you say but doesnt mean it is the correct or right way to drive them !! yes theres many ways get to do things like "you saying manually shifting it" but doesnt mean its the right way , and as far as the way it was designed and meant to be driven as a auto trans not "manually shifted trans" is to start out in second gear , and you do need the throttle pressure rod to have it shift correctly and drive the way it was designed.....i dont want to get into a pissing match about it so i leave it at that..

    ,but for anyone else reading this wondering about your "throttle pressure rod" i believe what i have said above to be true not meaning to mislead anyone. do research for yourself and you'll see that there is a need for one to have it shift if you just put it into gear and step on the gas to make it go driving it "properly"without "speed shifting thur the gears"......or ford just put it on there for the hell of it?

    And far as the original question asked by the poster :"but it wont shift from 2nd to 3rd on its own. I have had the truck up to about 70 mph. The kickdown is not attached, would this possibly cause it? "

    yes the part your calling a kickdown is most likely the reason your trans is "not shifting on its own" you might be able to shift it"Manually" like "rmt" " is saying just to get it to go!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
    Tri-power37 likes this.

  16. Lost hope, thanks for the posts! I have been trying to figure out how all my linkages hook up on my 56. The only thing im worried about is the linkage to carb since im running a tri power.
     
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  17. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    rmt,.... That was a great trick, when doing a bit of traffic light dragging....Not many folks knew about doing that. A buddy showed me that trick in his dad's 57, with 312. After that, it was a routine with the family's 54. When downshifted from Dr to Lo, it went to 2nd gear, until you were down to just under 10 mph. Then it dropped sharply to 1st gear.

    4TTRUK
     
  18. Ok, i want to re-hyjack this thread... please help
    Im installing a 239 flatty with Ford-o from a 53 into my 51 shoebox, which was originaly a manual. I want to make the linkages myself, which i can do, whatevers necessary.
    1. should the kickdown/preasure rod, start moving as soon as you touch the gas and bottom out when the pedal hits the floor?
    2. should the carb hit WOT before the pedal hits the floor, if so about how much aditional travel should the pedal and kick down have, say 10-15%?
    I can make my linkages to preform all these tasks with the necessary adjustment, IF this is the essential operation of the pedal and linkage setup.
    What additional knowledge can you pass on?
    Regards.
     
  19. Bilt
    Joined: Jun 23, 2011
    Posts: 311

    Bilt
    Member

    Hey 50....a few years ago I had an all origainal 292/Ford-o combo in my truck. It had never been touched and ran and drove great. One day I decided to let the truck sit for about a year. When I got it out I changed the engine oil, battery, and rad fluid and went for a spin. The truck lost all but first/low/whatever gear. I later found out when the truck sat all the crap in the trans oil settled to the bottom of the pan. When I drove it it sucked the crap through the trans and caused my problem. Not sure if this might be yours. Just trying to help.
     
  20. 50Poopbox
    Joined: Mar 5, 2011
    Posts: 69

    50Poopbox
    Member

    RMT-
    Im going to try the shifting method. not up to dealing with it tonight but will try over the weekend as my time allows. You didnt say what the problem would be if this does or does not cause the trans to shift. If it shifts does that mean that its a linkage issue, or adjustment somewhere, or something else? This is not the method that I want to use permanently, obviously, otherwise I might as well find a 3 speed manual and put it in the truck.
     
  21. wombat barf
    Joined: May 1, 2011
    Posts: 366

    wombat barf
    Member
    from oklahoma

    you can try cleaning the Fordomatic's filter. just drop the pan and look for a metal screen. remove that screen and clean it. in the old days we used to soak it in gasoline then light it on fire and knock the ashes off. don't do that. but the filter can be cleaned.

    the vacuum line slips over the end of the modulator valve. if that hose develops a split or slips off the transmission will not shift. if the hose is attached and serviceable you can remove it from the modulator end to gain access to a slotted screw that will allow to adjust your shift points. turn the screw. replace the hose. test drive. repeat as necessary.

    if none of these things work, buy a jar of seafoam trans-tune, add it to the tranny, drive as directed by the package and if the tranny starts to shift drain the old fluid and the trans-tune and replace with fresh fluid. trans-tune is a flush that works well but is not meant to stay in the transmission.

    I've tinkered with the one in my '64 Fairlane off and on since 1987. they are rugged and simple. my only complaint with mine is the lack of a third gear.
     
  22. signz67
    Joined: Jul 13, 2013
    Posts: 1

    signz67
    Member

    This is a lot more complicated than I thought it was going to be. I think I have a Merc o matic in my Monterey, maybe a cruise o matic. Had the 390 FE engine built. Added a 4 barrel intake and double pumper. 292/560 comp cam. I got it back and the linkage is not right. It won't engage the kick down. When I try to manual shift it from Low to D1 to D2 , it only changes once from D1 to D2. Is the modulator valve bad or is it just not possible to shift through 3 speeds if the carburetor and kick down linkage is not correct?
    The mechanic is a Crook. I'm sure he didn't put the stall converter in either. Is that going to effect shifting?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVbiH4LgN7Q
     
  23. Coopertough
    Joined: Jun 11, 2016
    Posts: 35

    Coopertough
    Member

    Not sure if its still relevant but figured id drop the little bit of knowledge i have on the subject because I know how frustrating it is trying to adjust it on these fom, com and, mom trans i went through it with my 64 when I replaced the first y block after buying it and then had no problems when doing the second and third because it seems it always gets out of adjustment when its dangling free awaiting an intake to be bolted down to. From what learned is that the truck set up is difderent from the car one slightly being it only has a plate on the intake and then the rod and a spring on the plate that connects the pedal assembly rod to the throttle pressure rod where as the cars have a plate on the firewall and a few more springs too but the truck adjustment is fairly touchy seems just a half turn out of adjustment and all of a sudden no 3rd gear and when I was doing it the first time everyone kept saying adjust it longer and longer until it goes *THAT IS WRONG* start with adjusting it not quite all the way up but to where its pulling somewhat tight up on the rod from the trans leave the jam nut loose because you'll be under the hood a few times adjusting it until it works and you'll need two 5/16 wrenches with you go on a test drive and continue adjusting it about half to 3/4 of a turn at a time until you get a nice firm shift through the gears now I know you said yours is a 59 so its most likely a 2 speed fordomatic unless its been swapped to the later cruisomatic like what I have (the green dot trans (( if I put it in D its just 2nd and 3rd but if I put it in green dot D ill have 1st 2nd 3rd)) im not sure if yours has tbe green dot D anyway once you get it adjusted go ahead and back it off a little less than a 1/4 turn and lock it down with the jam nut and finish up the test drive hopefully this will save someone some time and frustration
     
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  24. Skyhunter
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 27

    Skyhunter
    Member
    from Boston

    What is the required spring for the rear spring on the pressure rod?
     
  25. I wouldn't even bother with a old outdated auto trans. Get a adapter and install a newer better trans. maybe even a overdrive automatic.
     
  26. Tri-power37
    Joined: Feb 10, 2019
    Posts: 364

    Tri-power37
    Member

    This is for 59 poopbox . Having installed a edelbrock carb on a Edsel 361 (400) engine I also had trouble right away with the 2 speed transmission not shifting right . Lost hope is totally correct in his explanation of what is wrong - the image that he has scanned and the explanation of how to adjust it is exactly right . I have the same manual and followed the same procedure and my trans works (hopefully) as it should for the last 10 years. Coppertoughs explanation of how to adjust the rod and how sensitive the adjustments are is also correct.
     
    warbird1 likes this.

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