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Projects Ford Model A Coupe - 289 HiPo

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Racmit, Jun 15, 2017.

  1. Hotrodprimer likely has a point about the suspension being far forward for fenders to mount as original, but it sounds like you have a fabricated frame, and the fenders may not have mounted directly up anyway. It can all be made to work. I've done it. Maybe you end up with a longer hood and running boards.
     
  2. Many years ago I started building a Model A sounding very much like what the OP is starting with,I wanted to use a 289 and C-4 tranny with the Corvair suspension with a original frame and found out the hard way after mounting the running gear and sitting the body on place the rear 4 cylinders were inside the car.

    The hard truth was the ford drive train was too long.probably the reason why the engine in he OPs car is in the correct location is a custom frame. HRP
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  3. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,686

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Wow, that's got to be Harper Motors in Crystal City. I knew your grand dad and my brothers ran around with Brian. We lived on the same street - East Val Verde. I was just a kid, so I have no memory of the Model A, but I'll ask my brothers. Bros had a '64 Galaxie and worked on it a lot at the dealer. They said it got "floaty in the front above 100" blasting between CC and Uvalde. Good Luck with your project. It has good bones as they say.
     
  4. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    I'd be happy to put you two in touch if you'd like :) I'm a little new to the site but I'm sure I can figure out the private message system. What a coincidence, huh?
     
  5. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,686

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm sure my brothers would love to visit. Your grandmother "Dimple" was the sweetest lady. She and my mother were friends in CC.
     
  6. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    He said that when he sold the car, he swapped the manifold and the carb out for a 2bbl as part of the deal. I'll have to track down a 4 barrel version of both.
     
  7. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    I've had the fenders blasted, they were Swiss cheese but I laid down fiberglass and short strand above that, so it should be good now. They're primered. Still needs significant dent work, but I can reprimer
     
  8. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

  9. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    IMG_20180216_194601_135.jpg IMG_20180216_194618_262.jpg IMG_20180216_194615_138.jpg IMG_20180216_194608_255.jpg
    Confirmed the engine is from a 1965 Mustang, not a 1966. Also confirmed it is a hipo by the thicker caps. Took off the oil pan and got the best pics I could, but it's looking less than ideal up in there, pretty unhappy with it. Could anyone give me a guess on whether it would be rebuildable, and if so at what expense, were I to do most of the labor? It hasn't run since maybe 1968 and it should have maybe 40,000 miles on it from what I hear. How cheap could I get a 4bbl manifold and carb, considering I'm on a microbudget due to still being in high school? Thanks!
     
  10. Keep in mind that they changed the bolt pattern at the back of the engine about that time, the transmission has to match.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  11. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,823

    RmK57
    Member

    If the engine still has the unique 289 hipo parts still on it consider selling it to Mustang restorer and then buy a regular 289/302. Does it have VIN# stamped on it? Should be on the right side oil pan rail.
     
  12. Cliff Ramsdell
    Joined: Dec 27, 2004
    Posts: 1,295

    Cliff Ramsdell
    Member

    Wow, that poor thing is a mess.

    I would check and see if it has a 5 bolt or 6 bolt bell housing. 5 bolt limits your use with the transmission you have to fix whats there or pick something up that runs and swap the motor and transmission. I don't think there is a cheap fix gettiing the 289 up and running.

    Something like a 60's or 70's car with a 302/C4 would give you a bolt in and running setup and if that's a legit 289/271 motor you can recover your money to move your car along.

    Cliff Ramsdell
     
  13. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,937

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    If it is truly a hi-po (bosses around the valve springs, thicker balancer) I would sell it to a Mustang restorer and buy a roller cam 5.0/302. No need to worry about ZDDP in the oil then.

    If you do keep the 5 bolt block and rebuild it, you can put any C4 behind it by switching the bellhousings. I've used early blocks with later trannys. not that big of a deal since you already own a 5 bolt bell.

    You can shorten up a SBF a lot with different timing covers, water pumps and pulley combinations. Mine is only 1-1/2 to 3/4" longer than a SBC.

    SPark

    cooler8.png
     
  14. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,830

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    I have a car from the era of that engine and trans combo, it's a 64 289 Fairlane.

    Here is what I have learned about 5 bolt K code 289s. Basically it's the sum of it's parts that make a K code. The casting numbers are the same for all 289s. They tell you nothing.

    Heavy duty caps....well maybe, but does it have...
    the timing cover weight,
    the screw in rocker studs,
    Solid lifters,
    Dual Points,
    4bbl imtake,
    K code sized 4100
    And other stuff I'm sure I missed.
    Even the heads are the same casting number as other 289s

    Without all this stuff it's just another 289.

    That engine can be rebuilt but it needs a complete tear down.

    Transmission that my friend is a C4. Likely a Green Dot C4 Cruisomatic (Ford called all thier 3 speed autos Cruisomatics in the Challanger era).
    In 1967 Federal mandate standardized transmission shift patterns. This did away with the Green Dot Pattern. P-R-N-Drive White Dot- Drive Green Dot-L
    White dot drive starts in second gear....( a Ford thing from the 50s)
    Green dot is standard Drive.
    L is low.
    These will not hold second for long. To make them hold second start in L. Shift to Green Dot when it shifts from low to second, shift back to L this holds second under power. Run out second and shift back to green for high.
    My Fairlane's shift collar is worn a clue that the green dot really got a workout.

    Corvair stuff....
    "Unsafe at any speed".
    I would dump it in favor of a Ford straight axle.

    Rear Axle
    Look close it may be a Mustang or Fairlane 8". They look identical to a 9" and were narrow for the mid sized Challenger V8 cars.
    BTW....
    1965 was the change over from 5 bolt to 6 bolt bellhoisings. Early 65s could have 5 bolt bells while later 65s could have the standard 289-302-351W-240-300 pattern.
     
  15. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,664

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I doubt that is a correct . HP 289 K code engine . But it could be . Look at info stated to determine if it is or not . I have had a few , the best answer is as stated , sell it to a restorer . Use that money to buy a roller 302 , buy intake, carb , timing cover , distributer and drive it like you stole it ! Early AOD is the answer to auto choices these days also , manual is a 5 speed or 3 speed od toploader . Good luck , I have done many of these conversions , they will run till you don’t want to enjoy the hobby anymore


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  16. fiftyv8
    Joined: Mar 11, 2007
    Posts: 5,211

    fiftyv8
    Member
    from CO & WA

    Fix that car and engine right and you will end up with one quick model A...
     
    loudbang likes this.
  17. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    I have a few photos, I'm not down there now so I'm just working with what I do have on my phone. IMG_20180208_200720_034.jpg IMG_20180208_200723_097.jpg
     
  18. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    The transmission is a C4 I think, not 100%. I replied to someone else with a photo of the transmission in this thread if you can tell. I'm fairly sure it's a ford 9" as well. I checked it out, I have the wrong manifold and carb but I also have the weird distributor it came with without the metal bit on it for the vacuum (?). Next time I'm down there I'll get the VIN if it's still readable and I can get to it.
     
  19. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    I don't have a radiator yet, but seems like I'll have clearance issues. Any advice you can provide would be appreciated. IMG_20180208_200735_458.jpg IMG_20171220_130241_838.jpg
     
  20. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,778

    Fordors
    Member

    Looks like a winner to me, I’m seeing screw in studs and the bigger harmonic dampener. The Hi-Po dampener is the same diameter but wider and sticks out past the face of the hub as seen in the photo.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  21. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 2,194

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    This man gave you the best answer. I can tell you first hand if you are going to keep the original center xmember, you will need to modify it to raise the tailshaft. You won't enjoy the driveshaft angle or low crossmember as it is now.
     
  22. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    I don't know too much about the engine, I don't have the experience. Anything you guys could tell me about it would be appreciated. I'm planning to build it up, maybe a few upgrades while I'm at it, like getting a high rise manifold and such. What would you guys recommend? With that engine, do you think it should have a fair bit of pep? According to the MAFCA site, the stock coupe would have been around 2250 lbs, gonna guesstimate around 2500 to 2750 for mine... probably way off though. Depends what I end up doing with it all. The rear end is 4.56 geared, and with the c4 transmission, hopefully it'll be a nice hot rod.
     
  23. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,830

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    You'll shoot your eye out kid!

    Hi Po 289 in a Model A with ...Will it have pep? Ah..... Yeah.

    I'll be honest. That whole set up is like playing with dynamite, old sweaty dynamite.

    This is my advice.
    Clean it up and sell it, sell it all or sell the engine and frame and keep the body.

    I'm convinced you have a Hi Po engine. Get a some wire brushes a wash tub, a little kerosene or diesel then clean it up and sell it.

    Get you some cash started to by a car or truck you can drive.

    If you sell the engine, frame and keep the body. You should be able to find a stock rolling chassis that runs. Use your body on a complete running chassis to build a Model A banger go- job.

    A little Banger Go Job or a complete 40s - 60s car or pickup would be better suited for you in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  24. synchro7
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 341

    synchro7
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good find. Mine also is a 1930 with a 65 Mustang 289 (not a hipo), 4-speed, banjo rear. Bought as a stock A, and built it in 1970, drove it for a couple of years. Parked it, where it sat until 2007(life got in the way). Put on new tires, rebuilt the brakes and new glass. I have done NO body work on he car. It even has the original wood.
     
  25. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,937

    LM14
    Member Emeritus
    from Iowa

    Those are definitely Hi-Po heads and balancer. Worth more to restorers. Sell it and buy a later roller cam engine if you want to stay SBF, less issues.

    You have such a mis-match of parts it's really hard to share an opinion. Corvair, maybe under a full fendered car (as others have said) but it's so outdated there are much better options out there these days. SBF/C4 is doable under an A but you are going to have to do a lot of work to do it right, and safe. You will need to move the firewall back, create all the mounts, basically mount the radiator correctly and work from the radiator back. The 9" rear is a good piece to use depending on it's condition, Jaguar steering not so much (odd ball, no mounts, no support, nobody going to be able to help you).

    Finding a good A chassis should not be that hard and more things would be cut and dried to update it. Working off of a homemade frame can be really tough. NOTHING will fit. You will end up making every single piece. You will fabricate, square and attach EVERYTHING. Do you honestly have those skills? Makes that stock frame look better all the time. Call Pete and Jake and plunk down $12,000 for a complete rolling chassis if you have money. So much depends on you, only you can make the decisions.

    So many options, and many of them are based on the skill set you have. Not knowing that it's really hard to make a recommendation. I know what I would do but I might have a totally different skill set and taste than you do.

    Good luck with a decision.
    SPark
     
  26. deathrowdave
    Joined: May 27, 2014
    Posts: 2,664

    deathrowdave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from NKy

    I eat crow ! It is a HP from what I can see in photos . Worth big $$$ to a restorer . Next question is why would anyone but on a 2 Barrel ? It is what it is , determine where you are going to get most bang for the buck and enjoy the ride


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    loudbang likes this.
  27. Racmit
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 33

    Racmit
    Member

    Unfortunately, as I'm still going through high school, I don't have the spare cash to spend on stuff like that :) most of everything I've done so far has been as homemade as I can to save. I've never worked on a car before this either, so it's a learning experience.
     
    Clay Belt and loudbang like this.
  28. Clay Belt
    Joined: Jun 9, 2017
    Posts: 381

    Clay Belt
    Member

    Well now, I know the feeling. I suggest searching the junkyard for a SBF (probably going to have the best luck with a 5.0 from an Explorer or something) and doing a budget build from there. I think that I saw a link not too long ago on such a build. Here maybe? Otherwise, I think this was it:

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthr...et-302-Build-with-a-decent-Horse-Power-rating
     
    loudbang likes this.
  29. Clay Belt
    Joined: Jun 9, 2017
    Posts: 381

    Clay Belt
    Member

    Anyone else have advice for the student?
     
  30. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 1,823

    RmK57
    Member

    Look for a VIN# on the block and reunite the engine with it's rightful owner. Or like myself and others have said just it off to K-code Mustang restorer. I'm sure you could get $2k or more for the engine/trans.
     

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