****Feb 2012 Banger Meet.....Cupid is up for some Bang'n*****

That is a GREAT link, thank you!

 

Feb. 22 and it's going to be over 50 today. You got to love it

 

You will need a Syringe with a capacity of 200 cc - 250 cc for most model A heads. 7:1 is about 130 cc. Stock heads are over 200 cc.

.

 

I have a B head that had a huge warp in it. After the milling job I realized that the chambers must have been altered with .060 of material that was removed. I read a few blogs and away I went, here is what I learned along the way.

• I use a large baking sheet to catch the mess.
• Use 3-6" x 7/16" carriage bolts with nuts to hold the head up, this allows for adjustment and holds the head high enougth to remove the plugs easily.
• The 1/4" plastic came from the local glass shop $5. Drill a 3/8 hole and chamfer it, this seems helps the liquid to flow easier.
• I use some boat bearing grease and solder brush to apply it. It's thin, squishes well, and cleans easily.
• The large graduaded cylinder with the shutoff at the bottom is expensive. I use a 100cc (open top for pouring) graduated cylinder, I found it at the industrial supply for $10. I have also seen cooking type measuring devices that would work too.
• I fill the chamber as much as I can before placing the plastic cover with the 100cc cylinder. I record the amounts as I go and usually end up putting the last 20cc or less in with the syringe.
• Develop a system and do it the same way each time.

Have fun!

 

I like to add food coloring to the water. It makes it easier to see that the water has filled the chamber with no trapped air.

An old guy I know uses coffee.

.

 

"An old guy I know uses coffee."

Before or after he drinks it?


Herb

 

I would add:

You can set the whole head at an angle.

Drill the hole in the plastic way offset so you don't trap bubbles

Set the hole overlapping an edge again so nothing is trapped

You can get a cc set many places for less than $100 do a Google search

One you see how simple stands and clamps are you can build your own and buy the buret from a lad supply online

Use a thin colored liquid so you can see the scale on the buret. AND keep the buret clean and dry. Mine hang on the wall from a piece of safety wire

I have two so they never break

Only fill to the bottom of the hole!

For old guys like me you can get a magnifing glass to read the scale too

I use ATF

 

I place the head on parallels on the ways of my lathe leveling with shims to deadnuts level checked with Starret 6" machinist level. I pour from graduated beaker similar to the beakers sold by Speedway and others. !30 cc's on stock engine will produce close to 7.3 same with 4" bore will be 7.7, 4" bore and 4.375 stroke would be pushing 8 to 1 These numbers are all rounded off but should give an idea of the variables that exist.
I try to be careful and not make a mess.
I have a Winfield head that was welded across the top. It had a nice paint job, didn't see the weld, realize afterwards that area was smoother. I paid the guy $75 thinking "Gee what a swell deal" This was 20 years ago. I milled .045 to get it flat now have to cc it out. Problem is, I think, the squish edge should be matched to get a true, if possible, balance. Just did a cast iron Winfield "crow's foot" thats been milled, chambers now 110 cc's.

 

Bill

It is easier with a drilled plastic top and an angle on the head.....

 

The link I gave only charges something like $16 for their kit which is cheap enough, but i have a lot of junk lying around so I always assume everybody collects crap like I do. I made my own kit many years ago and always used a burette, ( and stand and filling funnel and beaker etc etc ).... however I find the cheap plastic syringes are accurate enough these days, get the big accurate ones for free from a horse vet . I commonly use a bigger one ( 50cc or 100cc) to do the major fill then a smaller one to do the final measurement.
I too use ATF or blue kerosine. I find petroleum jelly/Vaseline works best to seal the perspex /lexan to the head.

I know what you mean about the magnifying glass, I have trouble reading the Nitro hydrometer these days.

 

I have never bothered cc ing a stock Model A head , but Nitro motor I work on has approx 166cc combustion chambers with a 2mm (.080) gasket..... c/r adjusted with thickness of the gaskets depending on variable conditions for each run.
After each valve job I cc them sinking the valves to balance 8 cylinders and keep the c/r calculator correct. I just use two syringes .50cc to get in the ball park and a 20cc to get on the money.
Changing the gasket from 2mm ( .080) thick to 1.5mm (.060) changes about 5cc per combustion chamber , compression ratio from 6.1 to 6.3 :1 .

 

What amount (cc's) do you use for the head gasket when calculating the compression ratio? .031 difference in piston height/travel with a 4" bore=6 cc's rounded off. Just curious, do you subtract the amount the valves protrude into the chamber? These little things can add or subtract from total.

 

Oh I should have said it's a OHV V8 ...496 cubes. So the valve projection is accounted for in the ccing process . The bore varies depending on liners and piston combination,( we experiment) usually we use 4.25" bore x 4.37" stroke for 496 cubes.
from memory 13.73 ccs for a 1.5mm (.060")gasket, about 18.3ccs for a 2mm (.080" )


I was just using it as an example of big combustion chambers and how I cc them using a syringe ...sorry for confusion.
The Nitro banger motor I saw looks like this ( I have only seen the pictures)

 

Well yhea thats some BANGer

 

The Nitro banger motor I saw looks like this ( I have only seen the pictures)
[/QUOTE]

Seems to me like something's missing there...
fearless

 

I am lazy, besides, my calculator is broken, I just slap the whistler on the motor and read the C/R. And, in the past when the tech people start bumping off cars for not having correct calibration, they get "learned", as my old friend says.

J

 

my lil banger runs 100# per hole ................

 

does anyone remember or can tell me where the 1940's dry lake rules & classes are ?
thanks .. steve

 

The whistler takes some serious setup effort and calibration to be accurate and still relies on a known capacity ( volume) to calculate the compression ratio.Cylinder temps have to be stable and accurate...
In this case the head is not installed so whistler is of no use....

 

Thats some funny shit.

 

Bet Roy Creel didn't it was funny when it happened!

He said that he had 22K $ in it


Herb

 

wow, I guess that I have been doing it all wrong.

my bad.

 

Random cc'n thoughts, Not having studied geometry in school I have used rather primitive methods to compute some of the smaller details involved in cc'n a flathead. I once traced the outline of the head gasket I planned on using in a build on a piece of 1/8 graph paper then counted the squares to find the area of the opening in the gasket so I could figure the cc's of the gasket, can't find that number, wrote it down somewhere's. It is an easy thing to compute the area where you can find a true circle but all them odd shaped area's in between. "B" gasket has more area than an "A". Another thought, do you figure the cc's of the protrusion of the valves into the combustion chamber? I do. In my current engine the total is about 4 cc's per cylinder, maybe slightly less, not much but it is there. The 4 cc's is calculated with a .060 protrusion. If I were to buy a 1/2" stroker crank from Scat I would lose .031 by 4" or an bout 6 cc's unless I would spend the money for another set of pistons with a corrected compression height, but as the head I plan on using cc's out to 110 I can use all the help I can find. My next step is to mock up the head on a block to see if my planned 1 7/8" intakes will clear. Raining today. Gotta find a cam in the stack with .365 lift to check this out. Actually, a .305 would compensate for gasket thickness.
So hows that for some random thoughts?

 

Nope this would never work.
No gasket, no motor, calibrated in 10 minutes and temp controlled.
Of course, for accuracy the gasket could possibly be included (not readily available for pic).

Yeah.

Bill, you have hit on a very good point, the reason for using a fluid to check the chamber is that you get a true volume. The issue I see is when you have a side valve motor, you need to calculate the displacement of the valves and the piston shape if not flat or with valve reliefs (using chev pistons). By setting up the whistler, you get all the variables. Then, you can test each hole.

 

As some of you know we are getting everything ready to recast the DO-HAL model A head.

We are also going to recast the 5-main Overhead cam only block. In the process we can undo all the poor and over machining. This block has no provision for cam, cam bearings or flathead valve train. Thus there are no internals for counterweights or stroker crank to hit. Oil, water and Mag are all external drive.

We can now correct the over bored cylinders and crooked over done mains. Not to mention setting it up for easy to get main and rod shells

Look at the rear main this is not a HAL 5-main block

 

Nice project Bluto now you really have me sitting up in my seat keep us informed and please dont destroy the patterns.

 

Bluto,

if not a HAL, what is it?
the crank shout looks to be pretty short.

J

 

Look at the rear main. It's not a HAL.... yes, the crank snout is short it is a HAL crank

I have shared these photos with many folks no one seems to really

I have seen a lot of HAL and Dreyers too None look like this block.

Side covers don't fit an thing else.

It has bronze main caps indexed with a step.

So you tell me John

 

Bluto,

I have no idea. It would be quite an interesting project to bring back to life.

John

 

No Shit

The block will be a bunch easier than the DO-HAL head. I got thinking about the 'D' block...... Donovin has provisions model A cam, lifters and valves .....none of that in the this!

This photo is the top plate. The casting is way "over built"

I doubt anyone else will ever need one of these blocks. But will provide a bullet proof lump for Mrs Bluto's little dirt car. We plan to do some hill climbing with the car and maybe a little 'Bug Stomping''