Im thinking about picking up a 59 Edsel but the motor is stuck. Wondering if anyone knows of any options that are a direct bolt in swap? Would any FE motor work?
Anything out of a late '50s to early '60s Ford should work. All the '59s went down the same assembly line in Louisville with the Fords so the 223 straight 6 will work as well as several V8s. Got any pics of it? Good luck....
I may be wrong but I think I can remember that the 430 cubic inch Lincoln engine was an option (can't find anything to confirm it so I am probably wrong). You can find the available engines at: http://www.carnut.com/specs/gen/edsel50.html A good question might be "What are your plans for the car?". A small y block is economical but a big engine is fun, what do you want? To avoid any surprises I think I would go with something that was in there as an option originally. Charlie Stephens
Depending on model and options, it could have a 223 six, Y block Ford V8, FE V8 or the big MEL 430 V8 usually seen in Lincolns. Whichever it came with, would be a direct bolt in swap, the others might fit with the right parts. Don't write off the original engine too fast. It might be easier and cheaper to repair, than to replace it completely.
Saw a 1959 Edsel the other evening with its original 6 cylinder engine and weird air cleaner set up. Have to say it looked pretty cool.
I am not sure if the Edsel had an optional 430 MEL motor in it but I am sure that the 383 was available. Either would be a bolt in if that was what it had to start with. It is doubtful that if it was a 6 cylinder Edsel that a MEL or a Y block would be a direct bolt in. I would imagine that you would need a different transmission and motor mounts but stock parts would make either fit. Like @Rusty O'Toole says don't write the existing motor off, I have had a few old Ford products over the years that looked hopeless until I started tinkering with them.
There were 4 models of Edsel, 2 Ford based and 2 Mercury based. Ranger, Pacer (Ford) Corsair and Citation (Mercury). The 1958s offered the 410 Lincoln engine in the Corsair and Citation, along with its close relative the 361 in all models. In 59 they dropped the Pacer and Citation, and the 410 but kept the 361 which was offered in the Ford based Villager wagon. This means the 361 will fit in all Edsels and so will the closely related 410 and 430. I'm not suggesting anyone do this, just that it is possible. The OP seems to be looking for a direct, bolt for bolt replacement which means he best stick to the same engine he has. Either fix the old engine or find an identical model. Since all these engines are obsolete the chance of picking up a good replacement that needs no work is small. This is why I suggest fixing the old engine if possible. It's not like he could pick up a 2005 used engine in a junkyard that will bolt in. Since the OP does not bother to tell us what model Edsel, and what engine and transmission, it is impossible to give anything but generic advice. Possibly the most versatile, easy to find replacement would be for a 223 six with the 352 FE in second place. I think the Ford truck 300 was developed from the 223 and it is possible they will interchange but I leave it to the Ford experts if this will work or not.
The Ford 300 six, introduced in 1965, along with the shorter stroke 240, is an entirely different engine family than the old 223.
Cool, good advice so far guys thanks. All I know so far is that it's a 59 Corsair with a 4 bbl V8 and auto trans. I haven't gone to look at it in person yet, just a got an email with a bunch of pictures. It's about 3 hours away from me and looks to be pretty solid. I'm not at all opposed to rebuilding the original motor if it's doable either. I'm just trying to weigh the options and see if it would be cheaper and/or quicker to just find another motor that I can drop right in. I'd just hate to buy a motor I think will fit and then have it turn into a bigger project because I need to weld in new mounts and all that.
When I first joined the HAMB I had an FE powered Galaxie. I got it cheap, it needed a carb and the guy said it, "smoked and wouldn't pull an sick old woman off a bed pan." I threw a carb on it and got it running then hooked a vacuum gauge to it to see where it was at. needed a valve job, so head gaskets and a valve grind later and it was running like a bandit. There is no reason to write en engine off until you know what you got. Good idea to weight your options but you may get it and be pleasantly surprised.
I'm pretty sure the MEL was a 58 only deal and the 361 was like the later 360s an over bored 352. The only 4 barrel motor in 59 was the 361.
I did some checking and found out the 361 was a version of the FE Ford big block engine. For some strange reason they made 3 engines with identical bore and stroke, and called them 359, 360 and 361. The 359 and 360 were truck engines. I thought the 361 was a Lincoln block, wrong! That was the 383. So, a 59 Corsair could have had a 332 or 361 engine, both being FE engines. This family of engines was made from 1958 to 1976 and was used in millions of Ford cars and trucks. Usually found in full size Ford and Mercury hardtops sedans and station wagons. More common are 352 and 390 versions although they made them as big as 428 cu in. They were a very tough engine. As the Beaner points out, there is a good chance of putting one back in commission without too much work. More good news is that parts and repairs will be easier than some other engines, because they were so popular for so many years. The fact that the engine is stuck is not necessarily a death sentence. There is a good chance it can be 'unstuck' and put back in commission. The worst case would be if it was left outside with the air filter off, spark plugs out and hood open. In that case the engine may be a writeoff. But if it was stored normally there is a better than 50/50 chance it will be ok.
Glad you figured it out, saved me some typing Ford trucks had the 360 (and 390?) through 1976, that might be the most likely place to find an FE. But see how bad yours is first. I got lucky with my 59 edsel, it has the 292, it would turn but would not run, I just put rings in it and it drives nice, didn't cost much to fix. If there is water in the motor, things might not turn out so well.
cross member is what holds the lower control arms. If you cut it the car will fold up. If you want a chevy engine get a front sump pan from a 1964 chevy 2, FE power plants are the better bet because a lot of old Ford trucks are still around.
'58-59 Edsel engine choices were a bit weird... The '58s offered the 'base' 361 FE in the Ranger/Pacer and an optional 383. The Corsair and Citation got 410 motors, the latter two being derivatives off the 430 Lincoln. You can't find the 383 listed in current info about the cars, but they did exist, I've seen several... In '59 the 383 and 410 disappeared, the base motor was now the venerable 292 except in the Corsair which still got the 361. The 332 FE was offered as an option above the 292. The 223 six was available as a 'no cost' option, but wasn't 'standard'. By '60, it was strictly Ford motors; again, the 292 was 'base', the six was a no cost option, and the 352 was the largest motor available. IIRC, the 383 and 410 used the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the FE, so that should simplify engine replacement somewhat. I don't imagine that rebuild stuff for the 383 and 410 would be cheap or easy to find these days. And early FE motors (332, '58/early '59 352, and 361) had peculiar cams, timing sets and timing covers although they can be updated with later parts. First-year 332 and some early production '58 352 motors were solid-lifter-only, with the blocks not being drilled for hydraulic lifters. There were some early production 'standard' column-shifted auto trans '58 Edsel's sold, but this option disappeared in January '58, with only the TeleTouch pushbutton auto available until '59 when that disappeared.
Quite easy (did one for my '59 Ford, comparable to the Edsel) using an early Chevy II front sump pan.
Unless the owner can get the engine to spin, I'd negotiate the price as an "Edsel without an engine". That's not to beat the owner up, but essentially what it is. If he can get it to turn over, then the price should be as an Edsel with an engine core that needs a full rebuild-(as the engine could still be terminal). How long has the car sat w/o running? Was it out in the weather or inside ("3 hours from Ill". could be Winter freeze issues with water freeze in the block)? Is it fairly low miles (if it has 60,000 miles and will turn over, you may be in for a 'light' rebuild)?
Yeah I got some more info yesterday and he says someone left the spark plugs out and it won't even spin. It's 3 hours south, so that's a little better. Supposedly only has 50xxx miles and was stored inside but who knows. It's a 4 door and hes got it listed for 2k OBO
Pretty sure that he forgot to put this at the end of his statement. I am also pretty sure that the OP doesn't want to do an "engine swap" which is anything more then just a bolt in. Actually if it were me I would me more afraid of the transmission not working than I would the engine.
Spark plugs out is bad. I would negotiate a price as if the engine is junk because it probably is. I wouldn't try to start it, I would take the heads off at once. If the cylinders are not rusted or full of mouse nests, bonus! Incidentally a small amount of rust pitting is not a death sentence. It may be possible to hone the cylinders and reinstall the pistons with new rings. I know of one engine where they did this. It burned oil for a few weeks then settled down and ran good. A few years later they took the head off for a valve job and found the rust pits filled with carbon and polished smooth. As long as the rust spots are not big enough to snag the rings it's ok. Think of a 2 stroke engine that has holes completely thru the cylinders. Worst case you need to bore and install new pistons which means a complete rebuild. With 50000 miles chances are the crankshaft and cam are not badly worn and can be reused.
Seems like there are no real short cuts and a good deal can turn out to not be so good real fast. I knew an old machinist when I was a young man that said that minor pits in the cylinders and minor scratches in the crank didn't hurt a thing they just made more place for oil gather.
You should be able to get a complete, running used Ford V8 for $500 or less which would be the cheapest and easiest way to go. I just replaced the 223 straight 6 in my '60 Edsel with a 223 out of a '59 Ford pickup. I got it on eBay for $580 with a 3 speed manual trans which I sold for $95. I also sold the truck air cleaner for $50 so I'm only into it for $435. Check the HAMB classifieds, eBay and Craigslist and I'll bet you can find a decent one for a reasonable price. Good luck....
Remember the transmission seals are going to leak if the car has set for several years, replace them while you have access to them. Charlie Stephens
^^ ^Ha ha yeah that's why you hone the cylinders, the tiny scratches let the piston ride up and down on oil ball bearings.
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