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Dumb wheel bearing question. I'm kinda stuck!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by evintho, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    evintho
    Member

    F100 conversion to '37-'41 spindles. It's been awhile since I pulled the crusty '56 brakes apart. I've got the Speedway conversion kit. Looking at the back of the hub. In what order do the parts go in? Is it seal, cup, bearing or cup, bearing, seal?

    Also, which way does the seal go in? Does the solid side go in first or the two piece side? Please pardon my ignorance!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,990

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Cup, bearing, seal [two piece side in].. you are going to pack the bearings with grease, right?
     
  3. Seal goes in the way you have in the pic. I put a little lube on the cup and seal so it presses in easier.
     
  4. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    evintho
    Member

    Little confused on the seal installation.

    This side goes into the hub first

    [​IMG][/URL]

    or, this side.........................

    [​IMG][/URL]
     
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  5. OldFord39
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 64

    OldFord39
    Member
    from Monroe, Wi

    Seal goes in as is shown in the second picture; The first picture you show indicates the seal to be upside down, the lip would go towards the bearing.
     
  6. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    They go in order from bottom to top in post 1 the bottom two (race and bearing) you have facing the correct way, the seal is upside down.
     
  7. Fordtudor37
    Joined: Jan 5, 2011
    Posts: 273

    Fordtudor37
    Member

    Bearing race (cup), Bearing, Seal (two piece side in first). Use large socket or Bearing Race installer to install race in rotor squarely all the way, rub bearing grease on race, then pack bearing as much as you can (excess is okay), then seal (use large socket or correct size thick wall pipe to install squarely in rotor. Where is the Bearings slotted washer, nut and cotter pin ?

    The lower picture shows the correct side to be installed first because the design of the "45 degree inner area" of the rubber part of the "seal" allows it to set itself correctly against the shaft so that the wide part of the rubber keeps grease in and garbage (water, etc.) out.
     
  8. OldFord39
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 64

    OldFord39
    Member
    from Monroe, Wi

    Little confused on the seal installation.

    This side goes into the hub first ( correct )
     
  9. DD COOPMAN
    Joined: Jul 25, 2009
    Posts: 1,121

    DD COOPMAN
    Member

    Put the seal in so that you can still read the numbers on the rubber after install. DD
     
  10. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    evintho
    Member

    Got it! Thanks guys!

    Yes, I'll pack the bearings and I have the slotted washer, nut and cotter pin!
     
  11. Actualy, if you have never done this before, get a buddy that has and watch him. Once you see how it's done you'll know for next time. It's critical they are done right. No margin for error here.
     
  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 25,881

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You will hear the tone of the hammer blow on the driver change when the race is fully seated in the hub.

    If you haven't packed wheel bearings before ask someone how to do it correctly as dabbing grease on the outside of the rollers doesn't do a lot of good.
     
  13. JohnEvans
    Joined: Apr 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,883

    JohnEvans
    Member
    from Phoenix AZ

    You do know that you have to grind a larger radius on the bearing right? Do the grinding BEFORE you pack the bearing. Actually use tape on the roller area to keep grit out of the bearing. Grind enough so the bearing seats all the way to spindle shoulder.
     
  14. Say what?
     
  15. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,237

    evintho
    Member

    Part of the conversion to '37-'41 spindles
     
  16. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    That bearing looks like it might be done already,slide the bearing on the spindle and see if it slides all the way on.
     
  17. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,296

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm still trying to understand why you want to install 37-41 spindles on a '56 F100.
    ??????????????????
     
  18. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,990

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    No, its 56 f100 brakes onto 37/41 spindles..
     
  19. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 5,990

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Some bearings [cones] come with a small radius on the bore/face that shoulders against the spindle seal diameter, not letting it seat by hanging up on the spindle fillet radius, thus the grinding to clear the radius on the spindle...That said, I have never had to grind on the bearing as they all came with enough radius over the past 30 years..
     
  20. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,195

    325w
    Member
    from texas

    I ground bearings on two different cars. It was must to fit correct.
     
  21. Hotrodbuilderny
    Joined: Mar 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,646

    Hotrodbuilderny
    Member

    If you enlarge the picture of the bearing you can see it's done.
     
  22. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    I've done this before (30 years ago) with no problem - now doing another set I put the seal in flush -- and it contacted the inner part of the bearing, preventing that part from turning.

    Didn't seem right ... but on second thought the inner part seats against the spindle shoulder and doesn't turn anyway -- is that right? It is the hub, race and rollers that turn....

    30 years is a long time to remember something... Straighten me out here, fellas.
     
  23. pug man
    Joined: Apr 9, 2007
    Posts: 1,010

    pug man
    Member
    from louisiana

    not sure what you are asking Fenders but I will try and help you out. You have your hub then you put the race in first making sure it is facing out so that the bearing will fit inside of it. After you have the race in grease up that bearing real good then put it in so it slides down inside the race. Then you put the seal on with a large socket that will fit on the shoulder of the seal and hammer it on lightly. Hope that helps....
     
  24. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    Right, Pug -- but the seal (as shown in the OP first post) contacts the inner part of the bearing, not permitting it to turn (and putting pressure on it as well)...

    I see you said lightly... my question is whether it matters that the seal contacts the bearing.

    This conversion seal is a full thickness seal -- I note that on the original F100 seal is "hollow" on the back, where it meets the bearing race so it cannot contact the bearing; I'd like to use that type of seal for the older spindle, if there is such a seal. (see photos)
     

    Attached Files:

  25. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,644

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    You wont want the seal to contact the bearing it wont let it expan out when it goes on the spindle. And you are correct that the inner race does not turn.
     
  26. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    What I thought.... thanks.

    The stock F-100 "hollow" seal allows the bearing to float in the race until the bearing is held in place by contact with the spindle upon installation.
    Unfortunately the ID of the stock seal is too large (1.75") for the old spindles (1.5").
     
  27. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,644

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    You need to see if there is room for the seal on the spindle if the seal is not installed all the way.
     
  28. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    saltflats, I think that's the solution. I'll check.
     
  29. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 207

    garyf
    Member

    Easy way to remember, The lip on any seal always faces the oil or grease
     
  30. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    UPDATE:

    OK I don't want the "solid" type of seal that comes with the Speedway set (this seal is marked A34032 but I could no reference to that). When pressed in flush to the hub it pressed against the bearing, pushing the rollers into the race. I know it won't do this in every installation, but it shouldn't do it at all.

    Looking at the original 1953 - 55 F-100 front seal, it is is the "hollow" type -- when driven in flush to the hub the edges will (may) contact the race, but nothing contacts the bearing. You can reach in and wobble the bearing. So I wanted a seal like that, but with a smaller shaft dimension (want 1.563 inches).

    Looking for this seal dimension in the Timken seal manual on page 38
    http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/Documents/Seal-Specification-Guide.pdf
    lists seal #473441 as having the correct dimensions to fit the 1955 F100 hub bore (2.756" a press fit into the F-100 2.75" bore).

    Also this seal is Timken style 470, which is the "hollow" style (with a spring wrap - nice). I ordered a couple, and they work perfectly.

    (National/Timken #450461 recommended in some articles also looks like it could contact the bearing, it is Timken style 450)

    In the photo below, left to right, are a stock 1955 F-100 seal, the Speedway seal, and the Timken #473441 seal that I ended up using.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013

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