http://www.acdmeet.org/ http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/news/Duesenbergs_to_race_side-by-side_at_reunion/index.asp It's getting closer! This is a once in a lifetime thing, I don't think it has ever happened before. There is no way I would miss it, even if I was not participating. I'm getting my Duesy all tuned up: New plugs, clean and set the points, set the timing, then I'm going to put an LM1 O2 meter on it to get the air/fuel ratio dialed in. I'm also going to check the front end alignment and maybe add some more caster for high speed stability, and dial all the play out of the steering box. Then I'm going to see if I can upshift it without double-clutching the un-syncronized trans to speed up the up-shifts. To practice, I figure I'll watch the tach while I make my normal double clutch shift and see what the RPM drops to at completion of the shift. Then try it again and stab the clutch, feather the throttle just enuff to let the RPM drop to the same level as on the double-clutch shift, and go for the next gear. I still won't try a power shift or anything stupid, just a single clutched, rpm matched shift. That should not be hard on it at all. I know I won't have the fastest car there. Since it still has the original 81 year old aluminum rods, I won't rev it past 3900. Some of the more wild and crazy among us, with aftermarket steel rods will probably go to 5500+. But I want to do the best I can with what I have. If any of you HAMBers make it, look me up. Here's what I'll be driving:
I agree that it should be a great event. It is really a shame they never put decent transmissions in them. If somebody shows up with one of the White 5 speed conversions they should be lapping the field.
Need someone to post up some nice HD videos of this event for those of us who can't make it (PLEASE!).
Make sure you get pics and video if possible for all of us to enjoy. Good Luck I hope you have the time of your life.
I thought the Duesy trans was good albeit a bit complicated and E X P E N S I V E nowadays. Last I heard a Duesy trans was over $100K !?!?!! I don't do bad speed shifting a Duesy, but to me a "speed shift" in one of those is anything faster than I shift a Packard. The trick is to be shifting out of gear just as you're ready to lift off the gas pedal and just "dust" the clutch in and out in one swift move, then back in it hard. Not for meek or timid, I promise you. Had a client that would grind the gears every freakin time just in normal driving. He just couldn't get the hang of it. This will be bitchin...
If it had not been for the onset of the Great Depression, they probably would have developed a beefy, sycro'ed 4 speed. The prototype J's had a 4 speed, (might have been syncro, but I dont know for sure) but it couldn't handle the torque. So they swapped in the BW 3 speed at the last minute. It is my understanding that some of them had a clutch brake, and some did not. Mine has the clutch brake, but I need to get it adjusted properly, it doesn't seem to do anything. Anybody got clutch brake adjusting instructions for a Duesy J?
-------------------------------------------- Re about upshifting a non-synchro tranny without double-clutching by first seeing how much the rpms drops and then matching the revs and single clutching. On a non-synchro gearbox, if you match the revs, correctly, you don't actually need to use the clutch at all. Truckers do it all the time with non-synchro boxes and refer to it as "floating" or "floating the gears". All you need to do to upshift without using the clutch at all and without grinding the gears or hurting anything, is this - first, let up on the throttle and put some light pressure on the stick, as though to pull it out of gear. But don't actually pull it out of gear. just yet. Rather, just wait and maintain pressure on stick and as the revs continue to drop, the rpm will reach a point where the stick will suddenly gently slip out of gear and into neutral, "almost by itself"'. Then, quickly move the stick over to the next gear position, but don't force it into gear. Maintain enough pressure on the stick that you can "feel" it "almost" or partially engage, but not so far enough into the next gear to grind anything. When the revs drop to the point where synchronization is reached, as long as you're maintaining the pressure on the the stick it will , again, 'almost by itself' snick fully into into next gear. With a bit of practice you'll be able to shift simply by "feel", without using the clutch at all or even looking at the tach and without grinding or forcing anything. Mart3406 ============================
-------------------------------- I'm aware of that. But a new 13 or 15 speed Road Ranger 'crash-box' isn't cheap either They're worth about 10 or 11gs - probably at least close to the price tag on a stock 'Deusy' 3 speed. tranny. The principle of "floating the gears" and shifting without the clutch, is the same and works on any non-synchro gearbox, whether it's a common Model A Ford, a million-dollar restored Duesenberg, or a brand new 2010 Freightliner. Once you get the knack of it and learn to shift by "feel" - and - this is key - *as long as you don't try to force it into gear when it doesn't want to go" - you won't hurt anything. And technically too, you're even saving a slight amount of wear and tear on the clutch, and throw-out bearing because you're not using them to shift! Mart3406 =================================
Mart3406 is exactly right, I used to drive a big rig with an 18 speed... only needed the clutch to start and stop, once you get going it is all about timing and patience. What was really fun was the old Chevy 5-4 I drove... 5 speed synchronized transmission mated to a 4 speed nonsynchronized transmission... used the clutch when shifting the 5spd and no clutch when shifting the 4spd. Good luck on the race.
I haven't been to many car shows this year... but this looks like an Awesome event!!!! Got it on the calender!!!!!!!!!!!!
========================= Re Adjusting the clutch brake on a Duesy. Hmmm?? Maybe talk to Jay Leno, he probably knows! LOL. Seriously though, almost all 'big trucks' have clutch brakes. If you know a good diesel mechanic, he could probably figure out how to adjust yours. You mentioned that Dusenberg, had they survived longer, would have probably eventually gone to a full-synchro 4-speed. I remember reading somewhere that back in the late '40's and early 50's , when Duesensbergs where still just "old cars"...albeit very cool and special "old cars", rather than the million-dollar-plus collector pieces they are now, that a fairly common upgrade for the Duesenberg 'Borg-Warner' 3 speed was to adapt a 5-speed White truck transmission. Mart3406 =================================
Going rate for a complete J tranny was around 40k. They are not readily available so if you muck up the case you could be hurting. I talked to Fred Roe once about the 4 speed on the early cars and he said that was just a legend and none of the cars ever had 4 gears.
---------------------- Have you heard or read anything about guys in the '40's and '50 supposedly swapping in 5-speed White truck transmissions as an upgrade and replacement for the stock BW 3-speeds? Don't get me wrong, I'm absolutely in no way suggesting you do it, but I'm just wondering how common that was and what was involved. Mart3406 ==========================
Yes, the White truck trans or parts there of is a process the Deusey guys have figured out. Hell a complete J chassis and driveline is worth close to $250K. Anything with any coachwork is $400K. There may have been a short time when values tanked a bit but not right now. When the economy sucks the big cars go back to big dough...ALWAYS. But screw that. We're talking about a drag race! In Deusenbergs! On an airstrip! On Labor Day weekend!! I'm so there. I gotta see this! And mart3406, you got it so close to right with the process of shifting a J. I think it's best to just "dust" the clutch as it goes from 1 to 2. 2 to 3 is an art form to do it quickly w/out grinding. I put many miles on J 331. Driving one of those "hard" is like drinking Dom Perignon straight out of the bottle in front of the "raised pinky" crowd. But I always say, if it doesn't run or drive like it did in (in my case) 1931, it ain't worth a bent dick. Here's a link to a drive day with it: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205586 I last drove the car in Aug 08 when it went to Dayton, OH. She was as good as ever.
Highlander, I recognize that car, J331. A few years ago when I was seeking a Duesey, that car was on my list of possibilities, because I heard a rumor that it was for sale. I tried phoning Bill C. several times but never got an answer. Is that who owned it when you drove it? banjeaux bob, I'm with you on the clutch brake being for stopped in nuetral, trying to put it in gear. On the heavey trucks Iv'e driven and worked on, that's the way it always was. But just a couple days ago, I was talking to a multiple Duesenberg owner, and he claimed that the clutch-brake cars shift nicer. Anyway, mine has no effect at a dead stop, so I'm going to just tighten it a little at a time and test untill I see some results. As far as floating the gears on a semi, I think that's alot easier than on a car. The rpm range is so narrow on a big diesel, and the gears are so close together (in ratio), the gear speed is not that far mismatched to begin with. I've done it on beater old cars, but I hafta be carefull on a trans that is irreplacable. I'll run it hard, but not so hard as to risk a great likelyhood of busting stuff. Heres a vid of how I normally shift it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7XNCRC5wpk I think I can improve on that.
Wow FANTASTIC video! Thanks for posting it. I've never been in a Duesenberg before, but watching that video, I almost felt like I was there. What an experience driving...or even just riding in one must be. THANK YOU again for posting it! A question too. Do you know how many Model J's got shipped to Canada? My 81-year-old Dad tells a story that when he was 18 years old in 1947, he almost bought one from a used car dealer in Dundas Ontario, just outside of the city of Hamilton. According to my Dad, he was about 100 bucks short of the 750 dollars the used car dealer was supposedly asking for it, The dealer wouldn't a budge on the price and my Grandfather refused to loan my Dad the 100 bucks more that he needed, because according to my him, my Grandfather said - quote- "it'll use too much gas and you'll never parts for it". My Dad's pretty knowledgeable and his memory is still really sharp when it comes to old cars, but I still find it hard to believe that that even in 1947, that a car as rare, particularly in Canada,as an actual Model J Duesenberg would or could end up on a used car lot in Dundas. Any thoughts??? Mart3406 ----------------- P.S. A couple of weeks later, my Dad bought a '34 Ford 3-window coupe for 500 dollars instead of the Duesenberg. That part of the story at least, I know is 100% factual because I've seen the pics of the '34. =========================
Damn Joel, you're a riot! I'm surprised you haven't started faking things out of aluminum, broke out the hole saw and started acid-dipping all that heavy sheetmetal! And since your son is sitting on the passenger seat, it's obvious you haven't replaced the springs with a block of styrofoam... -Brad
Hey Brad, It's already got a bunch of aluminum in it. Body panels, firewall, oil pan, timing covers, cam covers, intake manifold, bellhousing, spare tire mounts, tail light mounts, dash, differential cover, torque tube yoke, transmission cover, brake backing plates, brake shoes.... I owe you an e-mail too Brad, should have it done by wed night.
I just read something about that a little while back. I don't remember the details, but it said there was only one Duesey dealer in Canada, and he only sold one car. But who knows how many used cars way have made their way across the border?? That's a cool story, too bad your dad didn't get the car.
I believe your dad's story. In 1960, a friend of my father told me a similar story. Only in his case he turned down the Duesy. At that time, it was simply an old car that he said it was more truck than car. Was hard to drive, got terrible gas mileage and had the clash box. He was not impressed at all. I think the time frame was probably late forties-early fifties. Dad had a '48 Dodge pickup with the granny geared 4 speed clashbox. Upshifting was pretty easy, downshifting was a bear. Never did master that. Bill
Figured I'd bump this to see who's going. Gate opens at noon, cars arrive at 1:45, racing starts at 3:45, admission $15 or family ticket $25. Raise your hamb, uh, I mean hand, if you're going! Joel, I read the list and it's pretty impressive.
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