Technical Drawing a line in the sand

Some guys seem to have more of a "traditional attitudes" view of it, others more of a "traditional parts" view. By traditional attitude I mean "use what's available and works well". By traditional parts I mean "use only what was available back then".

It's interesting to think what those guys could have done back then if they had what we have now. But they didn't. I like to put myself in their shoes, and try to limit myself today to using only what they had back then. Of course I fail miserably on some counts, but it's rewarding to make something go fast and look neat with mostly old stuff.

 

When this thread started I thought "uh-oh, this will get ugly." Surprisingly it stayed on track pretty well. A couple of times I thought the wheels were coming off, but reasonable folks brought it back on track. So I retract my previous statement about this thread going to shit.

It actually helped to identify and define the different schools of thought. The interesting thing is I think everyone makes their case pretty well and I can't really disagree with anyone (it would be a matter of opinion anyway). I still have my own ideas about it but I can understand where everyone is coming from and I recognize that my thoughts about it are only valid for me.

Anyone remember Thor Heyerdahl? He built a raft from only materials available to ancient man and in 1947 sailed it across the Pacific. It was a "traditional" raft. He could have used a modern sailboat but he wanted to prove that it could be done and experience what it would have been like. Just reminds me of folks who build traditional hot rods using only parts available during a certain time period. It ain't easy and you've got to respect and admire what it takes to do that.

 

See, its really so simple when you cut out all the bullshit and excuses. Well said.

And I'd build a Datsun 240/260Z with a carbed LS and 17" wheels in a HEARTBEAT.

 

What makes you guys think we're spending "stupid money" on these old "period correct" rigs.

Mine is kinda cheap....in my opinion.

Also what's makes you think I am going to drive mine any less than someone with a 350/350 combo?



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The favorite rebuttal of the die-hard radial guy "Sure, those bias-ply tires may look better but I like to drive my car maaaaaan."

Does he think I pushed my f'n car there??

 

Good to see this discussion. Years ago I started a similar thread and the name calling and drama caused it to be deleted.

 

It's 1959 and I'm standing in an alley admiring a 51 Ford tudor lowered even about 3" all around and running Olds Fiestas. The previous day it was lowered in the rear with skirts, a real taildragger. Tradition "morphed" right then and there---taildragging went away. Sorta like seeing the dinosaurs disappear and the mammals take over. Anyway, I liked it better.

 

I think that it is because the report button got used. It would be interesting to see how often and for what reason, wouldn't it.

Wolfcreek,
The report button as well as people's understanding of our language have a very large learning curve. Some of us are well traveled and understand that our language has different usage depending on the region and even the social standing of the user. Even one's age can cause misunderstandings with our language and its usage. Time changes things, a couple of quick examples come to mind, KEMP for instance was originally an insult coined by a Hot Rod Magazine photographer/writer against a mid west custom. It doesn't have the same impact today. Or my dad's generation called a cigarette a fag, we all know that 60 years later it does not carry the same meaning at all.

Best thing that any of us can do is say what we want to say and if someone finds it offensive they just do. If a post gets deleted and it was one that you deemed important just repost it and take a different tack.

 

You nailed it for me regarding the "Attitude". For my truck I'm shooting for a 50's style build. I have no issues using repop parts. I have my sights set on a GMC inline six for the engine, but the trans will be a modern A833. It would be nice for your build to have nothing but old parts, but that can get expensive. Hot rodders make do with what they have and make stuff work on a budget. That's why "traditionally-styled" appeals the most to me.

 

The line definitely gets blurry for me. I really like and appreciate traditional rods & customs with all period correct parts. At the same time, I can appreciate a car that's been well done with new parts too. It all depends on what the owner/builder wants to do. Personally, I tend to hit somewhere in the middle. Just got my truck wrapped up. I was shooting for an early 60's speed shop parts truck look and feel. Tried to keep the visible parts along those lines, but I went with a Pertronix distributor and a T5 tranny. Mostly just doing what I could with the parts and money I have available. I had a lot of people tell me I should have used an LS-1, EFI and all that stuff. No thanks. I work with computers all day. I just don't need that crap in my garage. I can appreciate why some would want to do that. It's just not for me.

 

As Porknbeaner wrote, people understand things differently, based on their perspective.

As such I try hard to give people the benefit of the doubt when I read something that seems insulting.

I had a tough time as a mod telling Brit guys that certain common Brit phrases were highly offensive to the American women because the meaning here was much different. It's true the other way as well.

 

I appreciate a period perfect car, but I have hard time bringing myself to build the 1955 265 I have in my garage floor, because I like oil filters and full pressure oiling systems. With that said...I still bought it...so the line is kinda blurry for me.

My thing is I can't be the period correct guy....because I feel it's either all or none.

 

Shoulda bought a '56

 

Wavy, indeed.

I got crucified on a earlier HAMB post by a person who said my Chevy 4.3 V-6, alternator, radial tires, and (oh dear God) DISC BRAKES weren't traditional, and I should remove my car and myself from the HAMB. Come to find out, this guy has an auto trans, alternator, tilt column, and other newfangled stuff on his ride..yet he was giving ME crap about being "non-traditional"??? I called him out via PM on it, and (oddly enough, LOL) never got a reply back. I built my car with what I had available. Sure, I'd rather have a full-tilt Ardun, Kinmonts, Columbia 2-speed, but I couldn't find that stuff in our local junkyard, and I SURE can't afford the going rate for those parts; I can't justify losing the house equity for a set of cylinder heads or brakes.. Nope, it's probably not traditional in the truest, if-it-wasn't-made-before-1964,it-shouldn't-be-on-the-car sense, but it starts, it runs, it stops, it (sorta) handles, and I have an absolute ball driving it. And I always thought that hot rodding, in it's infancy, was taking old parts, and old cars, modifyning them to look/perform better than factory, and according to the owner's skill set and taste, was what it was all about..

 

When I opened the thread, it was because Benno started it.
But the 'line in the sand' crack alarmed me...I thought, "Uh oh, this is going to get political..."
...and when that line started to get 'wavy', it sure sounded like the News today.

 

I can never seem to find a good set and the ones that should have been in really good condition just do not work for me. Just visually something I cannot put my finger on as well.

Most of the time I just figure out the speed based on the rear end gear, tires and motor and gearing and wing it.

Its like lead for me as well, I appreciate the way its done and that it can be done amazingly well. But as a cancer researcher not exactly something that I find really reasonable in this day and age.

 

Wavy smavy, whats really trad, someone who has a ton of money and spends it to some shop to build him an ardun powered 32 with all the right stuff or someone who builds it in his garage with whatever he has on hand or wants to...........
I want the home builder every time cause to me that's traditional, sorry I kinda go with the do it yourself guy the one who takes it out for rides and can fix it hisself cause he/she built themselves....... and no we did not build rat rods in the 50's 60's.............at least in this ol farts memory, we drove them then and we drive them now.......

 

My car was rodded in 1960 with the same rear end I have now. it had a 283 with a 3 speed, now its a 350 and powerglide, same 40 Ford dash as was installed then etc. I chose to add the radials, disc brakes, flex line trans filler tube, halogen front lights, and led tailights, electric fan, etc. I drive with my kids and that is what I want to have...but I dont post anything about it here knowing it does not fit it...it's all good.
I respect those that stay the course and build the "true" period cars, in my case I like early styled cars, and as I recall alot of what constituted the "rebirth" of trad rods ( I know that some have done it all the same way; since way back) was when guys started to build bare bones rods in the 40's style as a way to counter the mega $$$ street rods that were in vouge, so guys built cars with pantina, non finshed interiors etc. ( think early paso robles and or billettproff)
Now you have trad rods that cost as much as the mega $$ street rods did then....
At the end of the day I still get jacked about my car when I look at it when turning the garage light off after a long late ride...

 

The fact that you kept a car that long and feel this passionate about it is really cool, I respect that.

I have no problem with the changes you made to your car. You did it for you and you own up for it and that's awesome. I wish there were more guys like you in our area, who make no excuses or feel the need to defend their decisions. The guys who erk me are the ones who make the "what if" excuses. "What if they had tilt colums in 1950? They would have used them!" and then they put these ideas into practice and lord forbid anyone say something about it. The idea isn't "What if?" it's "What was". Or at least it is for me.

I digress though, cause I feel like I'm leading Beaner's thread off in the wrong direction.

 

Old Soul,
You're fine. Makes me think a bit. I got a friend that is about my big sisters age and has done one of everything when it comes to rodding. We were talking one day about digital gauges and I mentioned that they just didn't feel right to me. He was building a '47 merc coupe at the time and he said, " Well benno if we could have got them we would have used them." So I leaned into the coupe and pointed out his never used made in the '50s S/W gauges. He just smiled and said, "Digitals just wouldn't be right in this old merc."

Sometimes we are shooting for a specific build, some parts will fly and others just won't. Most times we do what we feel is right, nice thing about this thread is that for the most part we have felt that being honest was right.

 

A very big part of the reason that I do this is the hunt for the correct parts. When I find a part that fits my criteria I get very excited. Childish I know but it trips my trigger. I remember getting so excited when I found a 57 Ford ballast resistor for my 56. There won't be 5 people in the whole country that will notice it but I know it's there. I'm thinking maybe some young guy might ask what is that? Then I can explain it to him and possibly pass on my passion for this shit.

 

It's amazing how much feelings enter into this. The emotions created by various cars are completely different for people. IMO Lots of custom cars were products of emotion more than skill, $ or common sense. Nothing wrong with that though, because without the love nobody'd bother to work hard enough at it to create anything great.

 

Suppose I see things in a Disney magic kinda way and am mostly concerned with the visible aspects. Anything else is a plus. Engine, trans, etc. not a big woop so long as it's hidden. Traditional builds don't need to be cost prohibitive either. I've had a handful of early to mid 50s vehicles that looked right and done on tight budgets, lowering, tires brakes, wheel covers, etc. Swap meets and wheeling and dealing help a lot too. Don't really matter what you build or drive yourself either, but "here" is where a certain type of build is expected.

Pet peeves for me would obviously be parts wrong for the time and neo nostalgic components that miss the mark.

 

I should clarify...I am 46. My Dad traded for the 36 in 71, it was a local build and nothing special...I was 4 when he traded for it...I rebuilt it and get to share it with my kids just like I did with him...lost his to ALS..in 2002 truth be told my special build period would be early to mid 70s' lol

 

Well then. Beat it! haha

 

I'll give you a taste of how you can make something mostly period correct, for little money. The inside of my Chevy II.



Moroso tach, The logo is a bit too new, but the basic movement (Jones Motrola) is right. Under $100 on ebay. Cable was about $30, nos Moroso. Superior 500 steering wheel, under $50 on ebay. Repop gas pedal and brake pedal cover, and parking brake handle. Rebuilt 56 column with new switch and turn signal lever, under $50 in it. New SW mechanical gauges, hecho en Mexico, the lights in these actually work. Under $200 for the set. I rebuilt the gauge cluster, that cost me about $5 for some "chrome" model car spray paint, and an hour or two to lube the speedometer, etc. The paint is nothing fancy, Nason acrylic lacquer primer, under $100/gallon, and the red Nason Acrylic Enamel was about $300 for a gallon with the hardener. Ignition switch, wiper switch, light switch are all old original parts cleaned up. Seat is a bit off, but it was around $100 from speedway, with the cover. Shifter was not very expensive...it's a copy of a shifter that B&M might have made in 1966, a Turbo Stick, which I have seen one picture of. They came out with the cable shifters in 1967, so I couldn't use one on a 1966 period build. I made my own, took some experimenting, but it works fine, shifts more positively than an OEM floor shift from that era would.

None of this stuff is expensive. Almost none of it is modern. It did take a lot of thought and research and effort to make it all work. I think it makes a big difference in how authentic the car looks.

Pick your period, and be creative. You can do a lot with a little.

 

Jim,I would like to see a photo of this car. HRP

 

There's a build thread, look on the last couple pages.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/plan-ii-62-chevy-ii-drag-car.853793/page-18

 

I have deep respect for the 100% trad guys and will go to great lengths to visit shows with them. I, however, really enjoy driving all my stuff with family, friends, grand kids or dogs on board so my builds are totally traditional in every way except for discs, safety belts and A/C (Texas). Also, some anti-sway bars and newer design shocks help most handling problems without loosing the individual character of most cars.
I want to be able to stop as fast as the car ahead of me and not loose my riders due to lack of comfort.
We all have our own priorities. As far as safety is concerned even the crudest of rat rods is no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle......well usually.

 

Build it to suit yerself says I! Yer the only one payin the bill....The hell with what anyone else thinks....Different strokes fer different cats... I am alll about goin AGAINST the status quo...