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Hot Rods Does Preformance Really matter anymore

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Speed Gems, Jul 31, 2015.

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  1. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Well, when someone starts messing with 'the Fog" I just gotta step up...All in good fun...:D
     
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  2. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    The Foghorn stuff was off the top of my head, and I knew the basic definition of "convolution", but yes, the quote is from Wikipedia, I couldn't have written such a "convoluted" explanation of "convolution" off the top of my head.:D Way too much time watching Saturday morning cartoons in the sixties...:rolleyes::p
     
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  3. George get out in the garage !
     
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  4. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I'm going, I'm going!... :D
     
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  5. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,324

    brandon
    Member

    Too easy now a days to make easy power...all my hot rods will be at least a 12 second driver....
     
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  6. treb11
    Joined: Jan 21, 2006
    Posts: 3,425

    treb11
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think there is something being missed here. It is a very rare HAMB friendly car that is not a total build anymore. I the "good old days" you could grab a rolling chassis & body out of the junkyard and a new OHV V8. with a little elbow grease and an Offy adapter, bingo you were running. Today, we are having to patch together tin, hunt down parts, and build the ENTIRE car, not just hop up a roller. That wasn't done in the past. It now takes more time and dedication ( and $ of course) to achieve the traditional hot rod.
     
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  7. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,469

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Of course it does. But she wants postformance cuddling as well.

    Sorry gents, couldn't resist.
     
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  8. bowie
    Joined: Jul 27, 2011
    Posts: 2,285

    bowie
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Or just have hung on to all of your cheap pieces of shit from days gone by;and keep cobbling on them. Oh yeah George, you forgot to start out with : BOY...I SAAAAY BOY!!!!
     
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  9. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,865

    Truckedup
    Member

    300 hp in a 2000 pound car that can hook up should get into the 12's. But what is a 12 second car? what goes on at the track with slicks isn't exactly the same on the street with "normal" tires.. I'm thinking a traditional 30's hot rod with 500 hp and "normal" tires is gonna be all over the road when you get on it in the lower gears even with a trick rear suspension. Which is a lot of fun and good for impressing bystanders..
     
  10. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,546

    Speed Gems
    Member

    I think that's why most guys use small block Chevys, because that's all they can afford after building the rest of the car.
     

  11. LOL I used to run 12s in that 4000 pound brick if a C10 that I drove every day and it was nothing special unless you needed something hauled. :D

    There are actually some of us who use and drive SBCs because we like 'em. I suggest SBCs to some of the fellas because they are easy and if the mill is easy you can concentrate on the rest of the build so I guess that goes along somewhat with the money angle, but an SBC that really motates is not cheap. They used to say "Speed costs money how fast do you want to go."
     
  12. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Oh man. Now I am embarrassed...:( How the hell did I overlook THAT!
    Cat_FAIL.jpg

    And yes Keith, I WAS out in the garage.:D But its damned hot out back, and I'm gonna get cleaned up now and take Emily swimming.:):)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
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  13. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    so very true, and if you are using modern aftermarket heads, its a bolt on. But a properly ported set of camel bumps will go 240 cfm@.500 so keeping it "traditional" is no excuse, it just requires a little more skill and effort.
     
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  14. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,454

    AHotRod
    Member

    Power-to-weight ratio is what it's all about.

    Light Coupe, 350 H.P. = Quick,Fast & Fun

    I have that and love it.
     
  15. RIGHT ON, AHotRod!!!!!!!!!
     
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  16. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,865

    Truckedup
    Member

    For many, probably you also, a vehicle has compromises forced by money or time or whatever. Vortec or after market heads are the same as using a 5 speed or TH350 rather than a LaSalle or 39 Ford trans .And proper head work takes experience and do it wrong and the heads are worse than stock. And a guy who is great at engine work might suck at fabrication....
    But a stock set of camel humps with some proper tuning can make enough power to make a lightweight car pretty fast....
     
  17. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    basic head porting is actually relatively easy to execute without fucking things up, and there is SO much good information on where to cut on camel bumps, that anyone that uses a reasonable level of care should be able to get 230ish with relative ease. This is mostly going to consist of chamber mods and pocket porting, biasing the pocket towards the outer wall, re-shaping the guide boss, and if you really want to go the distance and start pushing towards those 240ish numbers, straightening the long wall.
    The mods are so well documented its pretty easy to do this without access to a flow bench. Some heads can be tricky and counter-intuitive, but the early chevy heads aren't one of them. Just do your research before you grind, work carefully, and follow the instructions.
     
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  18. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    FWIW, 240ish cfm on the intake side should easily generate 420-430ish hp with reasonable street/strip cam timing (modern aggressive mid 240ish solid, or mid 230ish hyd) 10.5/1 and properly matched intake/carb/headers, should put a 2200LB ish hot rod with decent tires into the 10s. FWIW, this pretty much matches whats in my daily driver (it has small 230ish aluminum heads, because the basic vehicle is so damned nose heavy), it runs 12.0s @ 3400lbs, and is perfectly streetable, even gets decent fuel economy. As a ballpark rule of thumb, a tenth equals 100lbs...
     
  19. Actually most popular heads have porting templates available. Some from the factory and others from the after market. A template port job is not going to be like sending your heads to BranchFlo but it is way better then what you bought at the local swap.

    If one was just a little bit handy a flow bench can be made with a vacuum cleaner (find instructions in an old popular mechanics) the better the vacuum cleaner and gauges the better the accuracy but for most of us it is just to establish a baseline and see if we improved things. Remember no one is born knowing how to port a head and no one learns it at porting school (I don't think) there are some basic things to learn and the rest is by the seat of your pants to so speak. If you take it out and that didn't work in todays world there is epoxy to put it back with.
     
  20. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Actually Joe Mondello used to operate a porting school. ;)
     
  21. Funny I was thinking about Mondello when I said no one was born knowing how to port a head. I do vaguely remember the Porting School but if I recall it was more of a seminar.
     
  22. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I think at one point, he actually had a full time school going, maybe in the 90's? I think it was written up in PHR.
     
  23. I wasn't aware. It would have been a good place to learn but alas we don't have that opportunity so I suppose we have to learn the way that he did. :D
     
  24. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,679

    Larry T
    Member

    A pro with a flow bench might work forever with one port - grind it out here/check it, fill it in there/check it, grind it out somewhere else..................... until he finds out what flows best for him. Then he can start doing heads ('specially if he has a CNC set up). Not quite the same thing for a home builder doing a couple of sets of heads a year. And the pro isn't going to give away his findings.
    But, yea, there are kits with templates that will help the home builder. And I don't think blending and knocking out the casting lumps ever hurt anything - as long as we don't get carried away (unless your the guy that developes port shape with a flow bench).
     
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  25. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    You can get to 9/10s just by mapping the port with a pitot tube and flow balls, but based on past experience on the HAMB, I am going to stop talking about this here. No good can come of it. Guys on Speedtalk are amazingly open...;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
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  26. fadt
    Joined: Oct 3, 2010
    Posts: 128

    fadt
    Member
    from England

    Got a GM 350HO with Kinsler EFI in my T.

    In saying that I asked my wife the question, and she said

    'not really theses days; but it did when we were younger'.

    A voice of experience and maturity.

    If you have done it, you can sit on the lawn chair and watch others trying to do what you did years ago....
    Sometimes it can be real funny.
     
  27. When I was teaching myself to do Shovel and Pan heads way back when an old guy taught me a trick with a torch that works really well. It has more to do with directing flow than increasing flow and probably works best on a cross flow head.

    he also had some idea on valves that most will not agree with that I still use to this day. I figured he had won more races with his chit than I ever would so what worked for him would probably help me a ton. I not sure if the valve idea would apply to every head in every situation but it works on Harleys and small block chevies really well. :D

    If we are on the same page on "it" I got to say that I am moving to your neighborhood, most of my neighbors have curtains and if you sneak up and peer in the window that call you a Peeping Tom. LOL
     
  28. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    the best valve shape will vary, based primarily on the shape of the short side, and the shape of the port approaching the valve.
     
  29. Blase
    Joined: Aug 31, 2009
    Posts: 80

    Blase
    Member

    Its hard to say preformance matters when you are un willing to use the latest technology IMO.
     
  30. Funny NASCAR is just getting into the latest technology they were still running carbs 2 years ago. They still haven't jumped into the "latest" technology. They are using a carb type throttle body and injectors in the runners. The only improvement I see is in fuel consumption.
     
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