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Does anybody *actually* use adhesives instead of welding for rust/body repair?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnny1290, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. pbeguy
    Joined: Aug 12, 2009
    Posts: 4

    pbeguy
    Member

    I used to teach metal bonding for Fusor and SEM.
    If done properly it will withstand anything you throw at it.
    Lapped seams are easy if you do it right. Sail panels are easiest.
    Read the instructions and go to a clinic at your local paint jobber.
     
  2. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 712

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    I have a rust hole in my off topic daily driver .... in the roof. No rust anywhere else, just a quarter size hole in the roof of all places ... chevy!
    To weld in a patch will have to remove the headliner or burn a hole in it.
    I also think there is some sort of padding or insulation installed .... I think this method would be a good choice, instead of welding in a patch and cab is made of galvanized metal.

    While I will continue to weld in patches on old iron, I think there is a purpose for adhesives.
     
  3. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 1,302

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    My buddy runs/owns a big body shop all he uses adhesives... The stuff he uses is very expensive, it's not something you buy at the local NAPA in a can lol.... After seeing some of the work he's done on old cars using adhesives, that's all I would want anybody to use on my car... I remember back in 1960-61 watching those old timers out in the alley using lead on 90 degree days, you can have that BS...
     
  4. Scrapin’Metal
    Joined: Mar 19, 2018
    Posts: 57

    Scrapin’Metal

    The 3M panel bonding adhesive is a great product. Gluing on rockers or using on hard to reach welding areas. Many times you can glue to prevent warpage, but you should glue in structural areas.
    Patch panels are tough. Many times with the best prep and finish you will always see a shadow as the expansion rates are not the same as all steel or weldEd patch.

    I have used many times mainly in areas that will not show.
    Any patch panels its better to weld.
     
  5. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 20,254

    Roothawg
    Member

    I tried it on the drivers door of the Fly. I reskinned the door as an experiment I tried the panel adhesive. That was the first year of the Hamb drags. Look at my avatar and see if you think vibration might be a factor. Hasn’t failed yet. Not saying that it won’t over time. No warpage to deal with. I usually weld mine though.

    Crap, I didn’t realize how old this thread was until I saw Brewsir on the post. I got all excited, thought he was back.... now I am bummed.
     
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  6. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,998

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Anyone ever see a bedside fall off? Lippy
     
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  7. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,998

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Hypothetical question... Lets say you replaced a full qtr panel on an O/T car that is seamed and overlapped with the roof panel. It was previously spot welded at the seam and leaded. What if you fully welded the seam first and used 3M panel adhesive to fill the seam, ground it down then finished with a skim coat of regular body filler? Forsee any problems with expansion or adhesion? Lippy
     
  8. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 475

    KenC
    Member

    Not sure if it applies to all, but I used some Lord adhesive a few years ago that specified that it must be totally removed from any finished surface. IE, no paint or bondo directly on the adhesive. I don't remember the exact PN and that tube is long gone.

    Probably just a CYA, put there by the lawyers, but it was there.

    I have a possible use for that stuff, see what you think:
    My56 Dodge PU has the normal rust in the front fender, vertical strip next to the edge of the rear. To do a 'proper' repair would mean a complete rear edge replacement. That means a bent strengthening lip on a curved edge that must match the door curvature. Not easy for me to do. So, I was thinking of trimming off all the realy thin stuff, sandblasting the inner surface and applying a patch to the back. That way I could use the very rear of the original to maintain the curve, and meet the door. Then grind off any exposed adhesive and finish with Kitty Hair filler, Rage and primer.

    The finished filler would only be the depth of the original metal thickness.

    Whatcha think?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  9. A lot of Lord products are arcylic based, not epoxy, and those cannot be painted over.

    Why wouldn't you just use a reinforced filler product. No worries about compatibility issues, less expensive and will do the same job.
     
  10. This^^. Also are you sure you would need to go right to the edge of the fenders? Most that I’ve seen rust in further and you can weld in a patch without disturbing the folded over fender edge. Mine were done that way many years ago


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  11. pirate
    Joined: Jun 29, 2006
    Posts: 525

    pirate
    Member
    from Alabama

    I knowLotus uses it on aluminum sub structures that hold suspension and body on Elise’s and other models. Been told that is why they are so expensive to repair because can’t get pieces apart.
     
  12. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,998

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    K13 I was wondering about Kitty hair first then filler. It is a 1/4 in deep gap and about 3/4 inch wide, 10 in long. I have a buddy who uses the 3m adhesive as a filler under regular filler. He claims 3m told him as long as you use a heat lamp on it then 36 grit grind it before you add the last coat they would stand behind using it that way. I am not convinced. I believe I will use filler. Lippy
     
  13. I would be leery on something 3/4" wide as well. Epoxies and polyesters don't get along great and I have have seen fillers and polyester primers separate from epoxy bonding adhesives a few times. Generally on something like that, if using the adhesive, we would recommend putting an epoxy primer over the adhesive before you use the filler. It seems odd but the two epoxies will bond to one another and filler adheres to epoxy primer better than the bonding adhesives.

    I see no advantage to using a bonding adhesive as a filler. It is not what they are designed for, clearly requires more steps to use (even if it does work) and they are about 20 times more expensive. Kitty hair would work (if you already have it I would use it) but if you have to pick up product for something that small I would use something with a shorter fiber like an Everglass or FiberTech. You don't really need the bridging capabilities of a long strand and they are way more difficult to work with than something with a shorter strand.
     
  14. Yeah, I have been checking profiles, lots of folks have not logged in for 3 or more years.

    We glued in a couple top inserts. and a sedan delivery kit on an A Tudor. The inserts were glued to be watertight then were getting the stock looking vinyl after.
     
  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 20,254

    Roothawg
    Member

    Oh, good idea. I hadn’t thought about that.
     
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  16. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,998

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    Ok, I called 3m tech just for kicks and giggles. They said they sure would not recommend using panel bond as a filler or under polyester filler. They told me they have put body filler over prepped panel bond before and it will stick but long term compatability would possibly be compromised and can't imagine any 3m rep telling anyone it's ok to do! I said, yeah thats what I thought. Lippy
     
    K13 likes this.
  17. As a filler manufacturer that also sells adhesives we would never approve a process like you had mentioned previously.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  18. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 4,998

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    I think we can put this one to bed. :D
     

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