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Projects Dodge Flathead 6 Guidance

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by BUSINESSCOUPELUKE, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. I’ve done my own research, but I wanted to ask the community myself.

    I have a 1950 dodge wayfarer business coupe with a 230 Flathead 6 with a three on the tree transmission. It recently spun a bearing. I found a 1950 dodge pickup truck chassis with a 230 Flathead 6 with a 4 speed floor shift transmission.

    My question is, will the 230 Flathead 6 motor out of the 50 pickup fit/bolt right up to my 50 wayfarer using the 3 on the tree transmission?

    I just want something to get the car running and driving again while I rebuild the original motor.

    I’m 21 years old and this is my first classic car. I’ll be doing all the work myself. I have experience with motor swaps but I’m not very knowledgeable with classic cars
     
    Clay Belt likes this.
  2. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,057

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    Yes it will bolt right up, providing they are both 230. A 218 has a 4 bolt crank, but will work too.
    You have to switch the oil pan from the car engine to the trucks engine, and the oil pickups. The truck has a front sump, the car has a rear sump.
    Use the bell from the car and the clutch etc, a weekend project if you have the tools.
    Spun a bearing how? Low on oil or overheating or cruising on the freeway at super high RPMs?
     
  3. Thank you, I appreciate the information. As far as how it happened I think high RPMS were the cause of the spun bearing.
     
  4. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 2,118

    goldmountain

    With these engines you need to remove the flywheel from the engine because it does not clear the bellhousing.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

  5. Yes a bolt in swap. I would pull the pan on the replacement engine. If its sludged and the screen on the oil pump pickup is clogged you will likely again have bearing troubles. Pictured is a tractor oil pan. but your new M farmall sludge 001.JPG M farmall sludge 003.JPG engine could easily have the same sort of crud in it.
     
  6. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,943

    Budget36
    Member

    Pretty sure I ran into an issue on 218's...may not pertain to a 230...but there are two different flywheels, I'm thinking it was an 8 bolt and a 4 bolt (where it bolts to the crank), and each FW had a different offset.
     
  7. So what I’m getting from all of this information is that I should swap the oil pans from from the coupe 230 to the truck/replacement 230 along with the oil pick up. All while checking for sludge build up...

    Thank you for all the responses.

    I will continue to look for another wayfarer Flathead but for now the 1950 truck Flathead is all I can find in my area
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Current motor in the wayfarer coupe
     

    Attached Files:

    arthurC3 likes this.
  9. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,271

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Definitely clean out the oil pan and pickup, then use 10W30 detergent oil. If you have an oil filter so much the better.
     
    Old wolf likes this.

  10. I don’t know if that that was one of the causes, I used SAE 30 with some zinc additive prior to the motor starting to knock
     
  11. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,271

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Who told you to use 30 oil? I really want to know. This is like one of those legends of the old west that everybody knows but nobody knows where it comes from.

    The truth is they did recommend 30 oil for hot summer conditions before multigrade oils were invented. But they were invented in 1951. As soon as detergent oil and multigrade oil became invented, they were recommended by all auto companies. 10W30 was the default choice for oil changes in all garages and dealerships in the fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties. I know, I was there. Where this straight 30 bullcrap comes from is a complete mystery. It can only be from someone who has been hiding in a cave and has no knowledge of any automotive development after 1950. So how does he get around so much?
     
  12. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,271

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    To answer your question 30 oil didn't ruin your motor. It would make it hard to start in cold weather, cause extra wear by taking longer to get around, and reduce power and mileage but it wouldn't ruin your motor. If it was non detergent it would also sludge your motor up unless you changed your oil every 1000 miles.
     
  13. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,271

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You don't need zinc either. Like an OHC engine your valve train is lightly loaded. Zinc only came in with the hot new OHV pushrod V8s in the fifties. Now that pushrod engines have joined the dodo birds they are taking it out.
     
  14. This is a perfect example why I wanted to talk to people like you myself, Because I read all of these old threads and I get a mix of opinions and that is how I heard of the 30 oil. Plus it was in the original manual, so I went for it. Now hearing this information from you I will from now on run 10w30 detergent oil. Is there any addidtives you would suggest or the best fuel option on these old flatheads?

    I’m in this project by myself I don’t have anyone to really talk to in person about it. So that is why I wanted to join this group.
     
  15. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,980

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Is that your coupe in your avatar? Nice looking old Dodge.
     
  16. Yes it is I love it,
     

    Attached Files:

    s55mercury66 likes this.
  17. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,271

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Yours is a low stress engine and is not very demanding of oil. For normal use any name brand 10W30 is fine. As for fuel, there is a rule of thumb that your octane should look like your compression ratio. Compression on your car is 7:1 so you need 70 octane. The cheapest regular is 87 octane which was like super high test in 1950. In other words the cheapest regular is fine.

    One thing you might do is add a little Marvel Mystery Oil, Redex, or your favorite upper cylinder lube to the gas. Old long stroke engines are more prone to wear in the valves, rings, and cylinders than modern engines. But frankly unless you drive the car a lot, like 10,000 miles a year, it won't make a noticable difference whether you do this or not.

    An oil filter makes a difference to engine life so if you have one use it. Change oil every 3000 miles, filter every second oil change. With no filter change oil every 1500.

    Older engines also need occasional tuneups which is a forgotten art. You don't have to replace plugs points etc just clean and adjust. A good repair manual will supply the details.
     
    BUSINESSCOUPELUKE likes this.
  18. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,271

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I show this to everyone who is interested in the performance and longevity of the old flathead Chrysler products. This is the history of a 1 owner, 1951 DeSoto 8 passenger limo. Which the owner drove as regular transportation for 185,000 miles all over the western US, from Death Valley to the top of the Rocky Mountains, towing a trailer.
    https://www.allpar.com/cars/desoto/suburban-1951.html
     
    BUSINESSCOUPELUKE likes this.
  19. Flat Six Fix
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,057

    Flat Six Fix
    Member

    All good advice so far,
    other items to consider.
    Clean out oil pan, from the car engine, and the oil pickup and screen, install these on the donor truck engine.
    Pull lifter chamber covers inspect and clean install new gaskets..
    Pull water pump and pull out water distribution tube and clean and inspect. Not an absolute thing to do, but if this tube is crudded up, overheating and/or running hot can be a result.. Steel tubes can be rusted in bad, brass are the best and stay fine forever it seems.
    you could pull lower block drain cock, and freeze plugs and inspect for crud rod out and flush all crud. This is important if this engine sat for years, not running and someone used well water in the block for years..
    If the engine is running well I would not pull the head, or even the manifolds to avoid breaking studs.
     
    BUSINESSCOUPELUKE and Old wolf like this.
  20. dwollam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 1,093

    dwollam
    Member

    4 bolt, 6 bolt, and 8 bolt flywheels interchange as the pattern is the same. Trucks usually have 8 bolt, earlier cars have 4 and 6. Problems start when swapping a 218 for a 230 and in reverse because the 230 crank flange is .27" longer than the 201 and 218. No biggy there either, just use the flywheel that matches the engine you will use. 230 flywheel is recessed to make up the difference. Ring gear on flywheel tooth count varies but you can swap those too. Diameter is the same but tooth size and count are different. I put a '58 230 in my '36 pickup using the 230 flywheel and clutch and the 201 ring gear and starter and the '36 bell housing. One other thing to watch for, somewhere in the year changes my '58 engine had the oil pickup tube threaded boss in the block recessed 7/16" where the '46 218 was flush with the pan rail. I used a pipe 1/2" pipe thread adapter to lengthen it and worked great. Just little things here and there to watch out for.

    Dave
     
  21. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 2,763

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    And run10W30 diesel grade oil designed for a flat tappet cam. Not the watery crap designed for modern cars
     
  22. I had a dodge flathead six engine that did not have the stomp pedal starter. It had the later push button starter. And the ring gear is different. And the Starter drive went bad. And no one seemed to have new or used ones. And then I learned the New Massey Ferguison farm tractors use the exact same starter drive. Bought a new one at the tractor dealer.
     

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