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Technical Do it yourself Panhard Bars

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by pitfarm, Jun 17, 2014.

  1. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    This is more for period fettlers who like to use proper bits. If you love to use modern "Rose" joints and other bits of current crap, you wont even be remotely interested.
    If you have a mainly original Ford chassis like my nephew Hughie, but hate the random death lunges, as your, otherwise stock-chassied hot-rod seems to decide of its own free will to be taking you into the nearest stone wall as you career down your country track. These Panhard bars he made have completely tamed his Model A roadster which is now a pure pleasure to drive.

    The starting premise was to use only Ford parts, keep it simple, and preferably not too visible. So as neat as possible, no ugly brackets hanging down, not too much chopping up of Henry's precious metal. So why not buy one of the many proprietory bars available to the hot Rod community? Well, they all looked a bit crappy to us, and its way more satisfying to make your own, no?

    You need some 3/8" steel plate, some 3/4" square bar, 2 ford tie-rods complete with ends, and 4 weld-in tie rod balls. The pics should be self-explanatory. Remove front spring plate and weld on 2 pieces plate as here, plus ball. IMG_0347.jpg
    Heres another view. IMG_0349.jpg

    This off set to one side of the spring plate lengthens the Panhard rod as much as possible, taking into account that we are making the chassis mount (as opposed to axle mount) here in the middle, not in the ideal place, which is as far away from the axle mount as possible.

    Here is the axle mount. A piece of 3/4" square bar, drilled and tapped for 2 3/8" bolts, and a tie rod ball welded in the centre. IMG_0357.jpg

    The axle needs to be drilled to mount this block. As close to the radius arm as possible. Offer up the tie rod end first to check clearance.
    IMG_0360.jpg

    You gotta luv the old stock bolts!

    Heres what it looks like

    IMG_0352.jpg

    IMG_0364.jpg

    Front view IMG_0350.jpg

    There will be some that say a Panhard bar must run from the chassis one side to the axle on the other side. For a racing car this may be true, and is without doubt ideal. However, if you crawl under your A, you will see you have to mess quite a bit with the chassis in the area in question. This is a compromise, that is now fully tested, and works a treat.

    The appliance of (bush) science to the rear end follows immediately!

    Tom.
     

    Attached Files:

    D-Russ, rwrj, Binger and 1 other person like this.
  2. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Forgot to say that obviously you need to shorten the tie rod by cutting and re-welding.
     
  3. fortynut
    Joined: Jul 16, 2008
    Posts: 1,038

    fortynut
    Member

    Genius! I have studied early Ford tractor parts with similar uses in mind, as they are 'industrial-strength' (my wife claims this should be my middle name) and approximate in many particulars similar parts on Henry's cars. The unit you use with the ball on the spring clamp is very similar to that on the steering of F100 pickups, though I have to assume the one in use is of an earlier vintage. If your fix keeps it in the road and on the road, to quote Frank of the Furry Freak Brothers, "Right on, Brother!"
     
  4. Damn good tech...very unobtrusive (clean)! Love to see gennie parts used!
     

  5. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Thanks chaps, Hughie will be chuffed to bits that you like his fettlin' !

    So here's part 2 of the great "how to make your sloppy jalopy handle" saga.....the REAR !

    This took a bit of head scratching, because the lump in the middle sorta gets in the way.... lets mount it to the lump in the middle then!

    The bracket round the centre section is the secret, which Hughie used a piece of 7/8" round bar (was under the bench) and 2 bits of inch by half (roughly) on each end. End pieces drilled for clearance, then the 3 bits were clamped together on the axle and tacked with the mig. Some grinding done to clear.

    IMG_03540.JPG

    IMG_03560.JPG

    I forgot to point out that in all these cases, the balls must be left about 1/4" out from shoulder when welding so the rod ends dont foul the mount.

    Next is the chassis bracket, a piece of 3/4" square bar. Drilled with 2 3/8 holes. This bolts to chassis.

    IMG_03570.JPG

    IMG_03580.JPG

    Bolted up IMG_0366.JPG

    IMG_0370.JPG

    Bar in place

    IMG_0374.JPG

    Cant tell you how much difference these make. The car now drives as straight as an arrow, and steers easier too.

    Have fun!

    Tom.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. moonman29
    Joined: Apr 2, 2010
    Posts: 169

    moonman29
    Member

    I really like your take on this. I'm in the process of starting my "T" build and I'm going to borrow your ideas with a few mods. I'm going to mount the rear link in front of the axle as my axle is going to be exposed. Thanks for the tech,
     
  7. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,722

    Binger
    Member
    from wyoming

    This is a great idea!! I have been needing to build a panhard bar for my coupe and didn't want to use Heim joints or tie rod ends. This takes care of that and I have the parts stashed up in the loft! However, I didn't think that a panhard bar was needed on the rear if you are running a torque tube rear end with radius rods. I thought they were for mainly 4 link and open driveshafts.
     
  8. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,943

    340HilbornDuster
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Awesome idea! And it looks good too!...Should work great...(don't have any race cars).
     
  9. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Moonman, I am looking to do just what you describe on my '32 V8. How about an upside down "?" shaped piece of plate drilled and bolted to front of the torque tube flange. (Oh, is there one on a T?). The top piece that sticks up carries the ball?
     
  10. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Binger, believe me, the one on the rear also has a big effect...just ask Hughie!
     
  11. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,776

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    This is a good bit of fabricating and a good idea especially if your car has worn spring shackle bushings.
     
  12. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,020

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Great ideas, well executed and delightfully presented! Cheers !
     
  13. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,722

    Binger
    Member
    from wyoming

    Thanks for the advise. I am still finishing up the fabrication on the chassis and should have no problems including this on the rear also. I imagine the touring guys over on the Ford barn will like this idea also.
     
  14. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    A guy has to tread carefully on the FB, some grumpy ol curmudgeons over there!! ;)
     
  15. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Hi Moonman, I had a look at some T rears on Google images...its very different to the ol A isnt it?! Seems to me there isnt much to bolt a bracket to on the rear centre, and everything is sooo open, its hard to hide cheatin' devices ! Time to don the thinking cap.....
     
  16. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,722

    Binger
    Member
    from wyoming


    Too true.
     
  17. chiro
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 926

    chiro
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tech week entry for sure. Love it.
     
  18. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,700

    greybeard360
    Member

    I like that you mounted the frame brackets on the same side of the car. I think otherwise if the car was to unload over a hump it would tend to make the car twist as it moved up and down if they were mounted to opposite sides.
     
  19. rottenleonard
    Joined: Nov 7, 2008
    Posts: 1,973

    rottenleonard
    Member

    Looks well thought out and blends with the rest of it nicely. Well done sir!
     
  20. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    Looks very nice, now lets see a watts link version.
     
    stealthcruiser likes this.
  21. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    I think you are taking the mick, but we did look at a Watts link. However the bars each side of the vertical link are spaced too far apart to mount without a big drop bracket on one side and the vertical link needs to pivot on the back of the axle housing..... too visible for what we wanted.
     
  22. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    I don't know what taking the mick means, but I was just joking around a bit. If you are ever in that position again, it is possible to build a watts link in a horizontal plane and attach the center pivot on top of the axle. That keeps it bit more out of sight, solves a few packaging issues in certain cars, but does sacrifice a more ideal roll center.

    That being said I really do like your approach to the panhard bar. In an otherwise period hotrod a heim joint sticks out like a sore thumb. Although I'm sure someone will point out the heim joints were available post war.
     
  23. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Hi Kris, yea taking the mick and joking around....evidently same thing!:):). I'm really interested in what you are saying here. I don't understand what you mean about putting the pivot on top of the axle, can you post a drawing or photo?
    Thanks, Tom.
     
  24. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    Well here is one mounted under the axle but you get the idea:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    from this guys web site: http://www.billzilla.org/rcar2.html

    You just have to make sure you're heims or what ever joint you are planning on using has enough wiggle for the amount of axle travel.
     
  25. KrisKustomPaint
    Joined: Apr 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    KrisKustomPaint
    Member

    Hope that helps
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  26. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Thanks for that Kris. I get what you mean. You might get some kind of voodoo curse putting that "thing" on this forum! A good "how not to" anyway......
     
  27. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,399

    Mart
    Member

    I wrote a brilliant response to this but can't find it - lost in the ether I guess.

    I think it is a nice tidy job and from what you say it has improved the handling of the car a treat.

    My only query was with using that type of track rod end. There are springs in there, so in compression you have two springs allowing some give. In tension there are no springs and a solid connection. I just wondered if there was a slightly different feel between turning right and turning left?

    Neat work, though.

    Mart.
     
  28. pitfarm
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 63

    pitfarm
    Member
    from UK

    Well Mart, I don't know how the rod ends should be set but I always screw the spring right in then back it off half a turn so there isn't much movement. Is that wrong?
     
  29. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,399

    Mart
    Member

    Wrong? I dunno. Certainly better to be bordering on tight rather than loose.

    Again, Nice job.

    Mart.
     

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