disecting a cadillac motor... what do I have here?

I have started pulling apart the motor for our 50 Olds, a 54 cad motor which is backed by a lesalle stick.

I have found a few surprises already. First is an aluminum flywheel, and now this.

as you can see, chromed stock cad valve covers.



these are underneath.





are they studebaker? or aftermarket?

they ALMOST clear the stock covers.





I am trying to understand the paint scheme, most of the motor was white, then caked with grease, and painted black over the top. most of the bolt on parts were painted orange.





so I am eager to know where the rockers are from, and to dig deeper into the motor.

 

Proubably Stude. Here is my clearance method. I made the spacers 5/16 because that's what I had.

 

Those are not Stude at least not like the Stude ones I have... The Studebaker ones adjust from the bottom of the lifter...so I'm assuming there aftermarket...

There was a guy on Ebay selling dimpled Caddy valve covers but he wanted a pretty penny

 

look stock to me. Caddy, Buick and Olds all had some form of adjustable valvetrain through the early years. What Year block and heads are You working with?

 

I put some mcgurks on mine in the early 60's. They were cast similar to those. The
favorites back then were the Thomas mag ones. I didn't like the spacers back then
so I went with aluminum taller ones. I'd check the valve lash before you take it apart
to get some idea of what it was set at.Looks like fun.
were those dimpled valve cover orig equip? I never saw any back then.
I guess the above post answers my question.

 

I am under the impression that Cadillac did not have factory adjustable rockers, and that all of the dimpled steel valve covers are home made.

these seem that they would clear stock covers if all of the jam nuts are set with a flat toward the top.

did the Mcgurks have any markings on them?

the block is a 53 or 54, and I believe that the heads match. Before tearing into it, I thought it was stock internally.

 

I thought I read some where that the Y-Block Ford valve train was modeled after the Caddy / Olds stuff . All Y-Block stuff was adjustable.

 

its possible the ajustable rockers are stock,cad with the tri power set up in 57 had ajustable i think .....richie............

 

Caddy never had factory adjustibles, unless it was some wierd import deal...

Piero's right... I have a set of iskys that look like that I think. Thomas ones were magnesium... What else is left? Gotha? Well you know it's probably got a solid cam.

Thats a cool motor. Whats the history on it? Awesome score.

 

OK, I'm thinking built history. Don't have any knowledge on any OEM caddy adjustables. Thats why they invented they hydros, no? If they were stock, would caddy shit hit the rocker covers?? I think not. Old hot rod motor. Nice score. Don't look like Studi's to me, all I have seen have adj on the bottom...

 

Great engine. Putting a caddy in my roadster project.

Caddy didnt make adjustable rockers or dimpled valve covers. Original caddy covers that are dimpled were homemade. That dude on Ebay selling them for $500 a set is out of his mind. Get yourself a hammer and an original set and do it yourself and save $400. Hildebrandt and Offenhauser made dimpled ones.

Not sure what kind of rockers those are but they are nice.

 

McGurks/Crane, (Crane bought the rights I have been told) I bought a set of NOS ones in 74, put them on my 53 331 with an Engle solid lifter cam and the S.C.o.T. blower. Had Moon No Name VCs on it at first, had problems with the lock nut hiting the VCs, went with Hildebrandt blistered ones, ( my Offys didnt have blisters) still had interference probs, enlarged the blister from the inside and changed to ARP 12 pt locknuts and resolved it. Still running them today. Studes look simular but no locknut, interference thread to hold adjustment. Have a set of custom alum roller rockers for my 390 with the 471. Made by Gary up at Rocker Arm Specialists in Anderson CA. Hope this helps. Dave

 

I think that Dave is probably right. I have a set too. I always just thought that they were Stude, never bothered to look that close. Here are a few ads for the Thomas and Gotha rocker arms. They are visually different for sure. Mine have a "C 3" on the bottom. I forgot to check the ratio on mine, but if memory serves the are 1.5:1 which is the same as stock. Anybody have an old McGurk ad or catalog we can check?

 

if you got aluminum you might have some after market parts on there because I dont think they used aluminum back in the day

 

Those absolutely are McGurks. Isky bought out McGurk years ago when T. Willy still worked there.

 

Great Eye finding those rockers. What else in in that thing?

 

Can't be stock - there is no such thing as an OHV Cadillac with factory adjustable rocker arms. I am not positive, but I beleive the same goes for Buick. My first guess would be Y-block or Mopar. They don't look like Studes, definitely not FE, and most of the vintage aftermarket stuff is not that clean of a casting. Also, most aftermarket stuff has the name of the manufacturer on it. The non-specific letter-number thing sounds like an OEM production code. The Isky stuff says Isky, etc.
Most of the factory GM and Ford shaft rockers were the same diameter shaft, as is the Stude. Not sure about the Mopar stuff. All sorts of swappage can be done, but you have to look out for the geometry and the contact pattern between the rocker arm and the valve stem tip. On a well used engine, you should be able to see a wear pattern on the valve and the rocker, and see that it is reasonable. If not, you have some re-engineering to do before re-assembly to make sure it runs good and is reliable.
Just my observations

 

ok, it looks like they are the MGurks (sp?) confirmed from a local source also.

if they are adjusted so that the flats of the nut are with the valve cover they will clear stamped stock covers.

this setup has several thousand miles on it, and has been together for a LONG time.


The motor is out of a 50 Oldsmobile Holiday hardtop, which came from the Pomona Ca area. From what has been passed on, the motor and a LeSalle stick were installed in the mid fifties, along with some neat home made headers, tuck and roll, and a nose and decking. I was told the car belonged to somebody who ran a car at the lakes, and that many of the parts were off of their race car.

The car was parked in a carport in Pamona for years, before being brought to PHX.

there are more photos here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/album.php?albumid=390

and I suspect that you can see the car in the background of this photo from The Rodder's Journal.

 

Check out the lifters. If they are "Chilled Iron" (No I don't know how to tell) they seem to be worth money to racers using Hard Face Overlay cams. That you can see that the nose of the lobe has been cut out and welded and ground.

 

That is an interesting engine with some interesting pieces.

Way back when before there was easy access to custom valve covers it was pretty common to pack the stockers off to the chrome shop for a bit of plating.
I'd say that the mismatched paint was more due to various rebuilds in it's life than being a custom color combination. And if it had more "race engine" pieces on it at an earlier time they may have been replaced with the odd colored pieces. If it were mine I'd paint it back the factory color for a Cad engine out of that era.

 

Gregg, your engine came with a cast iron 3-2 intake didn't it?
Definitely a neat ol' motor! Still think you need to use the louvered hood though....

 

the car came with a chromed stock 4bbl manifold, and a couple extra factory 3x2 manifolds that the last owner bought. If you want to see that extra hood on the road, buy a olds and you can run it.

 

I got the timing cover off tonight, and saw exactly what I expected. when turning the motor by hand you could feel the slop in the chain.





should there be any markings on the cam? did isky or any others mark their ground cams? or is it just time to pick up a degree wheel and see what I have?

 

Actually, you're just missing the tensioner/idler gear. All the hot Cad motors had them.



Sorry.



I'll go lay down.

 

Tensioner? I don't think so. The cam marking are behind the timing gear

 

jeem, remember when I drove it around your block? You should have seen the condition of the clutch!

 

Yeah, that must be it

 

I put some of the new photos on our website, no time now to post them in this post.


http://allwayshotrods.com/fgallery/16


there are the casting numbers on the block and the heads, and the numbers on the end of the cam.

shots down the intake ports, there appears to be grinding marks in the ports. do they look different than stock?

the lifters are multiple part, but I can not compress them. are they "solid" lifters?

I could not manage to pull the passengers side lifters out yet, more time this weekend.

the rocker tips have some wear to them, what are my options?

 

http://www.hotrodcaddy.com/speed_parts.htm

here's some pics I've collected over time, maybe it will help you out. It you have adjustable rocker arms, then you should have solid lifters. ISKY still makes cams for the 331, as he made mine 2 years ago.

I have a set of 390 heads with the same sill paint scheme....Yellow covered with red. don't get it. They have lightweight springs and retainers. Don't plan on ever using them though.

Charles

 

here is the head casting #


the block casting number


the numbers on the end of the cam.


this is as high as I could get the Right side lifters without something better to grab them.


top and side view of the lifters... solid?