Did I Just Kill My New Engine?!

I'm just kind of bummed the Simplex's unintended "pulling boners" pun got lost in the shuffle. I blew coffee outta my nose when I read his post. Funniest thing on the HAMB so far this year...

 

See George , we are on our way !!!
Freudian slip I suppose ?

 

People, people...He has a plan! ok now continue.

 

Doesn't matter what color or wow big you can make the type...
There's 70,000 members , more than 1/2 of them don't post the other half don't read 1/2 the time, the times they do read they only read 1/2 of it

 

I wasn't gonna say that, but you did, so...

 

This is the best answer I've read in the whole thread. Just because I beleive the correct assembly lube has your ass covered. My brother had an old odd fire buick v-6 in his work car. He punched a hole in his oil filter on a gravel road, and drained the pan. He just happen to have a filter and enough oil to fill it. If you have any expearience with the buick v-6 with the pump in the front cover they take forever to prime. He drove the car a mile and a half before he had oil pressure. He drove the car another 30,000 miles until the trans went out.... I'd try running it...

 

I worked on a assembly line at the "filling station", putting in oil , fuel, hyd oil, coolant BUT I fogot the engine oil on one, it ran 75 feet to the place where they set hyd. pressure for the equipment valve and stuff. that engine ran long enough for the operator to notice that the oil pressure was'nt working. I don't know if those engines were prerun or it just ran that 7/8 minutes on assembly lube. Good luck!

 

You could pull the pan check the bearings furthest from the oil pump, if they look good reinstall fill with oil, pull the distributor, put the oil pump priming tool in and prime the motor. What a stupid thing to do! I've never done anything like that, well just the one time.

 

I agree with Ray, there's a broad range of competence here on the HAMB too.
There are also a number of posers giving advice on expensive decisions that they
clearly have a limited understanding of.
We know that you can pull the pan again with no problem. You need someone knowledgeable to look at the crank for scoring and look at the bearings for signs of
metal transfer. The best advise was to pay your builder to come and examine it when
you pull rod caps and main caps.
One of my jobs,when I worked in an engine building shop in the 60's,was to go out to
our customers shop with a set of micrometers and make a recommendation where the
crankshaft needed to be reground or not on a car with the pan and rod caps off.
I examined 3 engines that had the same thing done as the original poster.
2 of them I gave a thumbs up to as a good risk. One showed definite damage.
All 3 owners claimed (hopefully) that they only ran very briefly.
I only rendered an opinion. The final decision was up to the owner,as in this case.
You need someone with verifiable experience to look at the bearing surfaces and crank journals for damage. A newly reground crank should have a near mirror like finish
with NO concentric grooves. The bearing shells should show only uniform scuffing across the bearing and ZERO evidence of metal transfer .Hard to describe verbally.
With only 45 years of engine building experience,my ego might be a factor though.
I stand with Ray...X2 on oil pumps won't pump when full of air..,.get under
the car with your builder and emerge knowing what it is supposed to look like.
Good Luck and Cheers from McKinney,Texas

 

There it is in a nutshell. And if you are #1 OR #2, well great, you "wasted" the money for a pan gasket, big deal. If you happen to be lucky #3, and you fill it with oil and fire it up, you will be scoring your freshly machined crank, your rocker shafts, the bore of the rockers, the inside of the pump housing, embedding shit in the skirts and rings, and tearing up the cam/lifters. The experienced engine builders all know whos who on this thread just by reading the posts. Its really pretty simple, roll the dice and hope for the best, or do it right. If you go with the first option, and it turns out that you are lucky #3, well, you get to build a new motor in a month.

 

It's taken me 50+ years and a snot load of mistakes but in the end I am starting to realize that doing it half assed or making do, or hoping for the best will ultimately cost you more in the long run. To quote Mike Holmes... "Do it right the first time".

Pull the motor, send it to someone who knows what they are doing and have them check it out. Fix what needs to be fixed and tell your kids / friends what not to do going forward.

Putting oil in it and "hoping for the best" is the wrong thing to do and just plain stupid. Do you want to be driving it wondering if it's wounded and hoping it doesn't blow up - or do you want to drive it with confidence everything is ok... ?? Personally I would prefer to be surprised it blew up rather than surprised it didn't.

Pull it... send it to someone who knows what they are doing.
Fix what needs to be fixed and carry on

 

Run time on the motor before the oil drain was 1.5 hours, per the OP. I really doubt there was any assembly lube left on the bearings........

 

There is at least some possibility the bearings and/or other internal parts could have suffered damage due to insufficient lubrication. I think virtually all posters would agree with that statement.

So the real question in my mind is..........WHY would some people be unwilling to determine, with certainty, whether or not such damage has occurred, especially when the cost to do so in time and materials is very low?

Where is the upside in NOT KNOWING and to gamble with the outcome?

Regardless of anyone's opinion, including mine, it's time for this thread to be put out of it's misery


Ray

 

I said earlier on and I'd like to repeat it

You cannot change the law of Physic's

heat, rpm and no lubrication = engine failure.
RPM = Ruins peoples Motors - the higher the rpm the higher it is ruined
Engine assembly lube is thick and gooey and will see a time however once the heat and rpm get up it dissipates just like any other lubricant. It is there to give an initial start up protection and once the oil pump kicks in and supplies a full pressurised head of oil its job is done - if you do not replace it the heat and friction build very quickly and before you hear or see it the damage is done. Once you hear the internal "rattles" of an engine run without oil its sustained extreme wear and noone has designed any lube or marvel oil to replace the worn metal.

Strip it - check it and have peace of mind over what you find - Yes there are examples of engines run without oil however thay are normally older worn engines with probably excessive clearance so as the heat builds and the gaps close it is still able to turn

 

Good luck man, I hope it works out for you. If for whatever reason this thread closes please post your results.

 

I agree but it's not going to happen - this will go another 7 pages even if they have to repeat the info 2 or 3 times

 

It might go quicker if we just take up a collection, buy the guy a new mill and dissect the old one.

 

i can't speak for anyone else, but yes, i certainly have.

 

Update? HRP

 

To the OP.
I've done this !! If you used proper assembly lube you may be OK BUT!!! you need to pull the pan and look at the bearings period!!!!

 

Let us know how she turns out man

 

Man I can see myself doing this. You had the balls to post up on the HAMB and ask for opinions, and you got a bunch.

I am subscribed and looking forward to hearing how things went.


Posted from the TJJ App for iPhone & iPad

 

If the assembly lube is still providing protection after 1.5 hours run time , when does it stop providing protection ? 10,000 miles ? An hour and 45 mins? 5,000 miles? 2 hrs?
Maybe until you pull your boner ?

 

Well-
At the risk of prolonging this thread. And my own misery.
I have little to report so far.

I fired one of my 2 employees, worked all weekend, and got sick (It rains=It pours).

Hoping to get out in the garage tomorrow. Glad (yet sorry) I could create so much entertainment for all.

I'll still post it up when I have news.

To give a visual, the patient in happier times:

 

I agree 100%. Come on already guys, how many have said this? If oil can't circulate, there won't be any shaving in the filter that didn't already exist before the oil was drained.

Don't just run it, pull the pan. Does it smell burnt? Can you turn the engine by hand with a breaker bar? (or anything that gives you decent leverage) Does it turn smoothly? Pull the bearing caps...are they scored or blued (from excessive heat). Is there evidence of metal transfer? If it smells burnt, if it doesn't turn smoothly by hand, if the bearings are blued, scored or marred in any way...you have ruined the engine as it is assembled at this point - it cannot and should not be run as is. Also, if these bad conditions exist, I'd check the crank journals for scoring and bluing. My guess is, since the bearings are softer and meant to the brunt of the abuse inside and engine, that the journals and the block will be fine. At the very worst I'm guessing (if anything at all) you will need to buy and install a new set of bearings.

And IF you just put oil in it and run it, it MAY run for a while... HOWEVER, excessive heat can cause micro fractures and weak areas in the bearings. When it does blow, because it eventually will, you will likely be looking at a twisted rod or one shot through the side of block. It isn't worth the risk. Tear into it and know for sure...

 

Stupid move, beautiful motor...I always burn one and think about it for a while...

 

Your brother is smart. I do this all the time with my bikes and car. When I drain the fluid ion the transmission or motors that I work on. If I don't have any paper on hand I leave the oil plug right on the dash! A quick reminder in the end will save $ in the end!
Jay

 

Damn, really sux but I hope everything is ok man. Keep us posted!!!

 

I got 20 to put on your pay pal PM me

 

That sucks!

I bet you'll never forget that sinking feeling of realization though. I can almost feel it if I try hard. makes me want to puke.