This is a little long winded so if you take the time to read it and comment I would really appreciate it. Recently I picked up a new project and in trying to find a way to make it half assed look better til I could afford a paint job I have discovered that I am obsessed with painting. I've been a Journeyman Auto tech for 11 years and working in GM dealers for 15 have always done my own mechanical on vehicles but always saw painting as something "out of reach" to me. I don't know why -- maybe the same reason the painters at dealers I've worked at had me do the simplest of things on their cars for them mechanically. At the same time though from the time I was a kid I was always repainting my Hot Wheels cars and toys and have drawn and painted (on paper/canvas) since I was little. So I figured with the new project "hey maybe I can half ass something for now". I set up a "Dr Frankenstien" lab in my garage and started going at it. All I have available to me is spray cans at this point and as I started to see the results and reactions from friends at some of the designs I've laid out and painted just with cans I no longer want to half ass anything. I am more interested in the full ass. I know you don't just jump on board and start doing amazing kandy and flake paint jobs BUT I am willing to put the time in to get there no matter how many peices of discarded metal shelving or salvage yard fenders and hoods it takes to get me there. If not well hey... I tried. So as with anything I become obsessed with (this is nothing new for me my entire life if I became interested in something I taught myself how to do it to the best of my ability eg. teaching myself guitar when I was 12 and I still play in paying bands today) I have been trying to find all of the resources possible to get me where I want to be. I am on another board (sorry HAMB I'm not good at monogamy) called the Kustom Kulture Lounge devoted entirely to paint/airbrushing/pinstriping and am picking up as best I can there. Found a couple of books suggested on that site and ordered them. Any how to video/article I can find on the web I'm watching (this is all great for someone who doesn't sleep regularly). Basically my questions are these 1)how did you start out? where did you learn? pro taught or self taught? 2) suggested equipment for getting started (I've been looking at the Devilbiss Finishline HVLP gun kits) 3)tips on products -- it would seem to me that is the biggest problem with a lot of paint job mishaps is incorrect mixing of different brands of primer/base/candy/clear blah blah blah and see a lot of horror stories on the forums of weird chemical reactions even for pro paint guys who have been doing this for a while. do you just suggest say buying everything from one supplier or do you have some input on products that seem to be tried and true any help, advice, links to other sites or your own sites so I can check out your work or anything else you could thing of for a wannabe one day painter would be much appreciated
Hey man it's just paint, it will sand off if you mess it up. 1. I am self taught and only have 7 all overs under my belt, countless body repairs, on newer cars, and have clear coated hundreds of carbon fiber pieces. I am still learning and every time I paint something I learn something new. I talk to other guys who have been doing it for years and ask them questions I may have as far as technique. Practice is the best teacher in my opinion. I watched one of my Dad's friends who owns a body shop paint a few cars and figured the only way I can learn is to do it, but I am a hands on kind of guy. It is just paint and it will sand off, or out depending on how bad you messed it up. 2. Sata is the only way to go, again this is only my opinion. I also have a Devillbiss bottom of the line job, use it for primer but I used to use it for paint and clear before I could afford a Sata Jet and it worked just fine. 3. I have a buddy who works in an automotive paint store, when I have a question as far as process I ask him. I am a die hard Dupont guy as far as paint and clear go. For primer and sealers I am a Transtar kinda guy. The hard part is getting the body work straight. Just make sure you never try to cut corners, that is when shit gets sideways. Take your time and take as much of the car apart as possible. People half assin' it and trying to mask off weather stripping and trim makes a job looks like crap. Like I stated above, there is no better teacher than hands on experience. The more you do it the better you will get at it.[/FONT][/COLOR]
1) self-taught.....was just handed over paint duties at a heavy equipment repair shop, just shown how to mix the paint and adjust the gun.....then had at it. I love custom painting, there are always new tricks to learn from other painters, different ways to accomplish the same thing.... 2) 90% of all my painting is done with a $100 Cornwell hvlp off the tool truck. For overall repaints I use a Bink Mach I hvlp remote mounted off a 2 gallon pressure pot. Have a Sata for clear, but only use it on "special" projects....the Cornwell gun, as well as other "mid-grade" paint guns shoot paint pretty damn good. 3) I'm a hack, usually try to use what I have before spending $$$ on stuff, unless the guy I'm painting for supplies paint and/or $$$ to buy.... I've mixed HOK paint with PPG reducers, reduced Omni with DT or RU311, Valspar with HOK (same thing really) and mixed different brand primers together and top coated with totally different brand.....I'm sure other's will say "don't do it", and I will to..... But I do it all the time with no issues....haha That said, I generally stick to HOK for custom stuff and Auto Air for some airbrush work.
im self taught also(mechanic and painter turned pro haha), and i got pretty good at shooting outside with no booth. i got a sharpe sgf hvlp from ebay for a good price, and it was a good gun for years. small jobs i use the detail guns from harbor freight. I would buy the devilbiss and get comfortable using it, or if you have the cash to spend the satas are nice. I started using only the dupont chroma line, and it worked well. now i use ppg deltron and it works good too. And ALWAYS wear a respirator with the correct filters, even when shooting something small. being sick from the airborne solvents sucks, and it can cause permanent nervous system damage.
Well my Dad taught me how to paint. I 've done it for a long time now and like it as much as the mechanic work. Like stated before it's just paint it will sand off no biggie. I've used just about every gun they make Binks,Sata,devilbiss,sharp snap-om,cornwell ect HVLP and siphine guns If you keep it clean it they all work fine some better then others but to start with buy a cheap gun and spray. Tips for primer 2k 1.7 to a 2.0 paint 1.4 is what i've always used I'm not a pro but this is what has worked for me. Paint lines any paint line is good if you use their stuff. I like PPG concept but I will use shopline, omni, valspar. For candys pearls ect HOK . I use it and have tried others HOK is the best IMO just my redneck .02
Start on small stuff, i.e motorcycle parts. A small job is easier to get right. Get yourself a cheap (harbor freight, or equivellent) HVLP spray gun. Use a simple and user friendly paint line, i.e. DuPont. (you can almost put it on with a brush and get it to look good) Spend as much tima as possible on your prep work, in the end, it will show. Don't scrimp when you buy a DA sander, spend the coin and get a Hutchins, it will last forever. Buy a book and read it through, keep it handy so you can refresh you mind every now and then, until you find your rhythm...
Worked in collision shops for 15 years before venturing out on my own and now I have been building hotrods for a living for five years and there is no slowing down in sight. I use Devilbiss Gt guns for clear and basecoats and a Devilbiss finish line for primer and an old Binks#7 for metalflake. I used to be PPG and HoK only but recently switched to Sherwin Williams due to the rising cost of materials. I have been amazed at the quality and distinctness of image with Sherwin Williamd Planet Colorworld products. We are finishing up a 1971 Cuda 440 sixpack shaker hood car that is a rotisserie restoration and used S W allthe way through with out any problems and the way the clear lays on it is like the old PPG dau82. No wet sand and buff on door jambs or engine bay. Thank God!!!. I think that with todays basecoat/clearcoat products just about anybody can spray(except for candies/pearls and metalflake those still take practice) the magic is in the sheetmetal work and bodywork. You have to have a straight and solid foundation before you can make them shiny. www.Uniquecoaches.com shameless plug
Some good tips here. All of you that have posted (including the thread starter!) should join this group: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=36
i think i got started on models and toys......didnt really have a desire to be a painter, or body man, but just sorta happend. i figured out most of it on my own, then went out looking for jobs at 15. bob bond (pinstriper) got me my 1st job. i did some striping and custom work at that shop, but mostly learned how to do the work i already knew how to do ,fast enough to make money at it. during the late 70s, early 80s walt prey worked out of my shop and he tought me a ton obout striping, he is one of the best, and is a modler without peer. did alot of jobs with walt, i was never as good, but we mangaged t get alot done back then. as for equipemt, i got about 40 guns here in the shop, used everything, most excell at something. ive been mostly using iwata and devilbiss tekna's, and some satas. also got a couple old mattson hvlp's that we call the hydrant, as it will spray 16 inch pattern, and has quite a kick. it will really lay down some material,handles like a pressure pot, lol as for the materials, its is good advice to keep to a system as most suppliers will tell ya. some exceptions are that, you can basically use any clear over any base coat, and anyones urethane reducer will work in any system that its called for. the ones that take a reactive reducer, or stabilizer should not be switched. i say work, but maybe not reccomended for expensive jobs, as if you have a problem, the suppliers wont stand behind the product. just general fyi for when those quicky cheapy jobs or demo derby cars come up skull
1953. Enamel, tutone blue with a brush, Rustoleum would be a good substitute. That paint job lasted a while, then, when we could afford, it got new hand rubbed lacquer in 1995.
My father is a lettering/air brudh guy. He always had the garage at home stacked with tins from his custom bikes from the 70s. Wacky shit. Got me motivated I guess, thats the only place I can pinpoint it to be from. I was shown the basics and I did alot of watching. I still do. You're always learning in this field, always. If you're not, stop. If you can get the basics down, the rest will come naturally. As far as the custom aspect, it comes from the refinish industry. The key to a good candy paint job is doing the basics correctly and consistently. Devillbiss is a great starting point, and you may find them to be the end all be all. I started on a Sata I borrowed and haven't put one down yet. HOK is the only way to go. The price/quality ratio is unsurpassed by any. Stick with their line from start to finish and you'll have a great looking, long lasting paint job. Plus probably the greatest tech support ever. Good luck!
I consider the primer and paint separate components. That is, is you are priming, stick to the same brand primer, as hardener, and/or reducer. Once sanded, you can change brands when you get to the paint part. Paint, stick to the same brand for all it's components, for the best possible job. I even like to use the same brand sealer, for the final seal before paint, as the paint I'm going to use. If using clear, if the paint is catalyzed, definatly use the same brand clear! if the paint is a basecoat style, with no catalyst, feel free to use another brand clear, if you like, though I prefer to stick with the same brand. Sticking to one brand makes things easier! You build up a supply of extra reducers, hardeners, additives, that you can use again and again. You also learn the idiosyncrasies of the brand of choice. The things that screw up easily, spray window times, tricks to make the job better, what sandpaper to use for final sand, what sanding and buffing techniques work best with that particualr brand. there are LOTS of advantages to sticking with one manufacturer. Another important thing, if you ask a paint/bodwork question here, 10 guys will give you 10 answers. Not all are right or wrong, but there are definately guys here who THINK they know what they're talking about, and do not. Don't take as gospel, guys who've painted one or 2 cars, who have watched their cousin's best friend paint a car once. There are guys here with a wealth of knowledge in paintwork, overspray, Highlander, lownslow (Donnie), and Bill (SLowandlow63), skullhat, just to name a few. While they may sometimes disagree with technique, there ARE different ways to accomplish things the right way. You need to learn what techniques and materials fit your style and practice, practice, practice! Take advice, with a grain of salt, from guys who work in autobody shops. For the most part, they are trained, and work every day, with techniques and materials that are designed to do work the quickest, and easiest, not necessarily the best, and sometimes, the cheapest. Some are real craftsmen, but I'd say most are just technicians, and just barely so. The kustom guys, and the high end resto guys are the ones to try to emulate, and learn from!
those Cornwell guns are Devilbiss. I can't remember if they are Starting Line or Finish Line though, but decent stuff.
thanks for the input guys, I have just been spending more nights in the garage with spray cans and sample pieces until I can hopefully find a place to do more over the winter (I do most of my stuff at work which is great for mechanical projects but not exactly paint friendly nor do I think my boss would like me getting overspray allover brand new vehicles) the spray cans are cheap and let me practice masking out designs etc. along the way. Once I figure out if I can get a shop to work in over the winter that's fine for dust and overspray I'll get to stripping the old paint off my Caddy, I know I have some suprises in store for me underneath it so might as well get them adressed. For the "at home" guys one more thing -- what are you using for compressors?
I grew up watching my dad paint cars. When i was in high school i knew i wanted to do something in the automotive field. And by the time i was 16 i knew it was body and paint. I got an apprenticeship at a peterbilt truck dealership. This worked out well and I learned a lot. I like Dupont paints, sata spray equipment, I have a 120 gallon speedaire compressor and a 60 gallon campbell hausfeld.
I kinda went backwards.. I went straight for the custom stuff. I got an airbrush and learned it as fast as i could.. Then learned how to do a complete single color job, then learned body work.. I got in to it because no one could paint my bike like i wanted.. that was about 15 years ago.. and still at it!! I have a Sata NR2000.. used other Sata guns but thats the only one i like An Iwata VX505 6 "tool truck" specials Off brands with Snap on or Matco stamped in the handles and a drawer full of airbrushes and stuff. My favorite gun? A piece of shit Sharpe i got at a pawnshop.. Mixed and matched but this thing will lay out clear like GLASS!!! I have used jsut about every paint on the market including some aerospace stuff that cant be purchased by mear mortals.. But they all have one comonality.. It comes out of a Spray Gun! There are good and bad points to them all.. PREP is the secret! Dont Mix and Match chemicals! and Take your time! I think it has much less to do with equipment and more to do with confidence.. dont get me wrong good tools makes for quality work.. but if you are scared of it, all the high end tools in the world wont make a difference! Just my 2 Bits.. Good Luck with it! Its a blast!
The one thing I would add here is within a year you will no longer be able to buy solvent based base coats from jobbers in Canada due to the new laws and I would guess it will be VERY difficult to get it shipped from the US. That being the case you are dealing with a different ball game than any but the California guys on here when it come to the type of paint you can get on this side of the border.
After 16 years of busting my ass, so other peoples cars and bikes can get ink, Im done. I will still do stuff for friends, (they all want shit for free....so maybe not for them) and myself, but thats it. Have a plan B.................. I dont. Do electricians make good money, you dont have to buff anything if your an electrician. I would like to only pinstripe, can you pay your bills on a pinstripers wages, hummmmm. I doubt it. I think Ill be an electrician. Never done it, probably be better than paint fumes.
Grew up watching my day paint ever since I was a kid, even got real sick when I was little (about 5yrs old) from the lead in the paint fumes I was inhaling. Hell that was the early 70's for you! Dad showed me a few things, but to be honest I learned way more on my own. First "custom" paint I ever seen was "smoke" using a torch then clearing over it in the mid 70's. Just teaching myself still. I wish someone would have said -"Here do this!" I like painting and do it quite a bit, but in no way claim to know what I'm really doing. Someday everything goes perfect, others I wish I never woke up that morning. I can safely say I can cut and buff pretty damn good. Been using U-pol primers, fillers, and clears for several years and have had great results. Don't know if anyone else uses their stuff or not. Curious of any feedback of their stuff.
i started painting factorys.then house painting.i had e couple of customers wanting there kitchen cabinets and appliances painted so i bought an hvlp set up from sherwin williams.i still have it.i have used it for painting everythind from gutters to cars and i love it.it is simaler to a reg. cup gun but the cup is pressurised and it only sprays at 5lbs.it has a turbine that produses the air{sounds like a shop vac}it uses a 1'' hose and i never have to worry about water or oil in my paint.it can also spray the thickest latax paint they sell without thinning!im net saying that in a pro. at painting cars but they turn out pretty good and if you do it yourself you can save ALOT OR MONEY!!!heres my opel i just flake for $200 bucks.i could have spent alittle more time on the bodywork but its a racecar and it looks great to me.
i took an autobody class @ a local college and learned from a guy who had been custom painting from the 70s. not hard to figure i went the custom route. learned the basics on spraying, graphics, airbrushing, striping, and just kept at it. in a little over 5 years ive gotten alot of respect of other established custom painters who have been painting many years, some longer then ive been alive. learning for a veteran helps the learning curve. alot of the trial and error can be cut down when u have the right guidance. dont get me wrong i fucked up alot of shit learning, as probably everyone else on here.
From my experience from being a "shop bitch" at a custom shop is the perfection is in the prep. the candies / pearls / flakes take some practice to get right but in the end its the prep. making sure the substrate is perfectly flat and free of bumps / dips / waves will make a perfect paint job every time. take some time and talk to your local paint dealer. and read and understand the paint fact sheet. and just about every paint flub up can be fixed.
cool thread...im ordering my first gun in jan (gotta clear xmas) but im really lookin forward to learning this stuff.
prep is key, but on a candy or tri stage pearl its all in the application, the best prep in world wont stop striping and mottling.
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