I have got to the point with my coupe that I need some big help from the hambers!!! My 1931 coupe was chopped by someone else and I need big door help. Neither one of the doors fit very well and I need help making them line up! The line up alright at the bottom but the body line is off and the tops are way off. If I move the natar pin in a little it makes it fit better but I need to know where the top of the door "should" be!!! One of the doors it almost fits in the top line and the other is well above....Im under the impression that It should be above the top door line but I just need some help on how to bring the door up a good amount and what the usual fix for the inside of the doors is. The inside of the doors need "work" Heres some pictures and please help me with the best fix!!! I thank all the help in ADVANCE!
You have several problems: First is that the Ford coupe bodies had a door that overlapped the quarter panel, but did not overlap the cowl side panel. Ford used the rain gutter to help blend the transition from a flush fit front edge, to the overlap fit on the rear of the door. Whomever took the gutters off, must have decided that the overlap should run along the top also. But then realized that the top hinge was binding and causing the front top of the door to actually hit on the front. So, they tossed the top hinge. I have no idea on how to hide that screwup without putting gutters back on. second is that you really need that upper hinge to have doors that will STAY adjusted and not move in a week or two. They may have welded the hinge areas shut, or just bondo'd them shut. Third is that the bottom of the car lower edge must not be secure or maybe just welded all wrong, the driver side lower cowl-to-door looks out of plane. Channeling needs to be done right and made solid and all aligned good before proceeding with the build. Fourth is the doors look like they will not match the vertical curves of quarter and cowl, so the doors need cutting/welding while aligning them to match the body shell. Shortcut?? if the cars bottom edges are really strong??? I'd put a rain gutter on, then bend/cut/align the doors to fit the body shell....but you need all 3 hinges. All 3 hinges must be perfectly aligned...meaning that if the pins were removed from all 3 hinges, a solid steel rod should be able to go through all 3 hinge holes without binding. If they are way off, the door will flex the hinge mounting areas each time the door is opened or closed...and it won't hold an adjustment very long. here is a good bunch of pics from google (study the fits): http://images.google.com/imgres?img...e&gbv=2&ndsp=20&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&start=140
Looks to me like the tops of both doors are way off and will need to come back off or at least cut thru far enough to allow them to be bent enough to fit right. Are you going to run the top hinge? If not it might be a little easier to fix. Keep use posted on the fix I need to redo my pax door one of these days it fits like crap at the bottom. By the way my doors overlap the body at the top also.
Where is the best place to get the gutters and new hinges??? The previous owner has royally messed up the whole door setup!!! I hate going back and fixing other peoples half ass attempts i mean really! How much overhang should the top of the door to roof line have??? Also is there any patch panels or suggestions for the inner door? I know there is for the bottom of the inner but on one door the top half is really weak and old metal? Please help and thanks so much for posting suggestions I really need help on this Coupster when you say cut through do you mean cut the top of the door frame to angle it back towards the body a bit?
Trying to describe it better: Lets say you get the entire lower half of each door to fit nice to the quarter and the cowl.... now the topmost front corner of each door needs to go in towards the center of the car so the top hinge can fit correctly, and also have the entire front edge of the door (from top to bottom) to fit flust at the hinge post. But the top of the door can't go in because it hits the roof. So, a groove needs to be put into that front part of the roof, so the door can go in. That groove would be made up from a long strip of sheetmetal bent like angle iron. It only needs to go maybe halfway back in the door opening, because about halfway back, the door top goes from a flush fit to an overlap fit. The groove is deepest at the front and then tapers in depth to zero depth. Now is where you need a gutter placed right above there to help hide the transition. You may get lucky and find it is deep bondo there and just grind a channel? Try some big Model A resto online catalogs for hinges, etc. Door inside panels can be fabbed in pieces. You can make simple bends to come up with parts that will do the job....some shapes of bent steel can be found at metal recycle places. you are just making parts of a thin rectangular box...which is a door.
Thanks F&J for the technical info!!! Does anyone have some pictures of how they did the top of their door transition.....The hinges are really messing the door up bad. I really need to get them replaced...also need some reference for the door tops!
I think when they put the filler panel in the roof, your quarter windows pulled inward causing the gap at the top of the rear of the doors. It could be a mistake when the chopped the doors too though. I believe you should be able to lay a straight edge from the beltline up. It shouldn't have any curve from the beltline up vertically. Ratty55
I think so too, Something is bad wrong on that B pillar this might help here are some pics of mine during metal work
Thanks for the help so far....the other odd thing is that at the front of the door the body line matches up great.....but at the rear of the door its like an inch low!!!! Is it from not having the top hinge to pull it in or what and how do I fix it because the front of the door is already all the way forward!
Oh and anyone know "best" place to get rain gutters and hinges.....I havent found anyone worth a crap!
I was going to put gutters on mine, the more I looked int doing it the more I realized it was going to be way more trouble than it was worth. I have no wood at all left in my body and it is cobbled together from at least a couple different bodies. Your pics are alittle hard to see so I cant tell whats really going on but it looks to me as though the window frame portion arches outward. When I said cut it I mean maybe pie cut it starting at the bottom and bending it inward to more match the body line. You may have to cut it in more than two spots. There have been a couple real good threads on making hinges, I'd say they are the way to go. Do a search for model a door hinges. I am sure your body and doors can be made quite usable I know mine is, its just not a thing of beauty. But what the hell most folks don't know the difference.
Here's how I alinged the doors on my 34 PU. Not exactly like an your A because they overlap in the front also. My doors were pretty rough where the hinges bolt in to the doors and no subrails so I was basicly starting from zero. The first thing I did was bolt the cowl to the frame rails to hold it solid. Everything was built from the cowl back so I did want it to move. Next I rebuit the hinge area on the doors. Then I put the cab loosely back together. I lined up the belt line front and back and drilled the hinge holes. After everything was alinged I made new mounts for the back panel. Seeing that your body is channelled and the way the other work was done. I have a feeling that the body was out of alingment when they channelled it and you're better off starting off at zero. Also I think Model A's look funky without the drip rails. I know truck did when I took them off to fix them. From what I heard the is no good replacement ones. Search drip rail or rain gutters there is some good threads on here how to make them yourself. Mat
I'm with Ratty55's comment. I realize these pics aren't the best for close-up detail but I think it'll show an overall difference. That upper panel above the door (don't know the technical name) is out of shape due to the b-pillar work. It looks like the car was not squared or secured when the chop/work was attempted.
Like I said before I HATE going back and redoing someones shitty work!!! I can redo all the hinge work but the problem that I feel im going to have is at the front of the door....the body line is about 1/2 inch at least out of whack at the rear of the door...which I can get close but not inline because the front of the door wont go forward any further!!!!! Help with that I dont know how to get it to go further forward at the top to bring that back up.....
"the body line is about 1/2 inch at least out of whack at the rear of the door...which I can get close but not inline because the front of the door wont go forward any further!!!!! " You mention trying to move the door forward. I think you may have missed that Model A doors overlap the body on the rear edge of the door. They "cover" the body by about a half inch at the rear of the door. You can get "universal" hinges from Speedway. They come undrilled so you can match them to your car.
Im sorry the way I explained it was off.....what im saying is the body line that runs down the side of the door horizontal wont line up in the rear of the door. I understand it overlaps in the rear/top and fits flush at the front. But the front fits flush now and the rear needs to go up to match the horizontal line. How can I fix this issue???? HELP PLEASE....Im not worried about the top of the door I will cut the door top/b post to fix it I just dont see how to get the door to line up in the rear!!!!
if you have the bottom of the cowl loose and you move it in its going to raise the door up,move it out and it will lower it
I see what you are talking about now. Thats a bummer. Short of taking the body back a part and aligning everthing I can't think of any fix. There are some real good ideas in this post, hope they help.
Theres no way to get that lined back up? Now even if I take the doors off etc i dont see how its going to line up. I might just fix the chop on the top of the doors to bring them in and then put all new hinges and see where Im at.....still having a hard time finding drip rails....I think once i get them on the door wont be as bad
Why dont you post up some measurements of door opening at top and bottom and a few points from one side of the car to the other and I'll measure mine up and see if you can figure out whats off?
One of the alliance vendors is repopping the hinges. I just saw it the other day while flipping through looking for an axle and a frame. But I cant recall who it was at the moment. Just look through them you will see it.
Ill try to post some measurements tommorow....also man help me see who is repopping the hinges... I have been looking but didnt see any alliance members that are.........try to remember....try to remember!!!
yeah do some cross measurements.......im guessing what was said before is right....when it was chopped it wasnt braced and they didnt notice/know/or care about it being square...... personally id start looking for the welds on the channel and chop and figure out whats out of alignment then start cutting those sections loose.once you get them to line up and everythings square have someone tack(youll need to hold it in place while the braces are going in) some bracing in the car so it stays that way...do you have the door glass? if so put it in along with the regulator and see if you can even roll them up. im guessing that theyd bind alittle over half way. as for getting the door tops in you can pie cut them(id go about 1/8" less from what theyre sticking out) and then use a tie down strap with a 2x4 to pull them in then tack and check fit until youre happy with them. but i wouldnt worry about that until the bodys sqaure otherwise youll only be working backwards........
Its really hard to tell on the body line with the pictures you have posted. Can you roll the car out side & do some side shots so we can see how far the accent line is off. First you need all the hinges for proper alignment unless all the wood has been removed & replaced with steel. To much flex will occur you really need all the hinges. Second if the front gap is parallel with the front pillar then you will need to cut the top & push the front section forward slightly to raise the body line to proper alignment. The last alternative is cut the door length wise raise the line to alignment making sure all your latches are aligned correct. I don't recommend this way but it's your car. Bottom line the person that cut & put it back together did not pay attention to the details & it has caused a major problem. It's all in the details Danny.
Top of door opening from a post lip to b post 27 3/8 roughly (both sides identical) Mid door opening 27 1/4 roughly bottom door opening 26 3/4 Front windshield from outside Apost to outside A post roughly 46 1/8 Inside A post "no indshield frame in....42 1/2 at top and 42'' midway The are all rough measurements but maybe itll help
Heres a coupe pictures that I had taken outside....maybe give a better idea and thanks again for all the help guys!
By what I see in the side shot are those correct diameter pins for the hinges on the car if they are loose that will cause some problem next you need the upper 3rd hinge in to see what you have for alignment. Is your door nice & stiff or dose it flex due to old loose wood. Is the wood in your pillar new or at least real solid, if your wood is tired rotten ect that will cause problems. Just a few more thing's to look at before cutting. Don't cut any thing till the 3rd hinge is in & all hinges, pins bolts ect are tight. Take it 1 step at a time keep us posted & how about a close up of the front door gaps out side to see what you have for evenness Danny.
The wood has be replaced with steel inside the car....there is no wood left. Its going to be a pain...the idiot who had the car before me welded the hinges in and on two hinges where he couldnt get the pin to go in he cut the bottom circle of the hinge off. What a pain in the ass!!!!
Gotta love it when someone thinks they are fixing it when all the are doing is making more work for someone else. Good luck with the car it can be done it just takes time and thats the fun part. Take a steel car make it look like its glass WTF.
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