I'm converting my beater to an automatic and I've got everything mounted. The flexplate is a basic 168 tooth from summit and I've started it with just the flexplate and it didn't have any issues and i inspected it before installation so I don't think it's bent. The transmission is a fresh th350 I had rebuilt by the best local transmission builder and converter is a summit rebuilt cheapo. The converter is fully seated into the transmission and there's about 3/8-inch gap between the mount pads and the flexplate pads and while I've never done this before 3/8 just seems excessive. I understand the converter needs to come out of the transmission some but how much? I can't find an exact amount. Also if I have to shim it, can I use washers or do I have to buy a bunch of over priced shims?
You want about 1/8 inch gap before pulling the converter in, so you definitely have more than that. I have used hardened washers (the heat treated ones that are consistent thickness) to make up the gap when using a mid-mount between the engine and bellhousing, in order to get the gap corrected. I assume your converter is seating into the end of the crank OK? Also the bellhousing is snug against the block?
that's on the right way. Interesting...if you push the converter forward all the way, is there still a gap between the converter and flexplate?
Bellhousing is bolted to the block. I had my father help me with this and he thought is was going together right. To be honest with you all I doubt he has much more experience than I do with this and what he's had was 20+ years ago before I was born. I got under there to have a look for myself and the damn converter is I guess rammed into the damn pump. It's not moving toward the engine no matter how I try to pull it out. I looked at where it goes into the crank and I can't tell if it's not going in and it's just run up against it or if it's in it and bottomed out. Right now I'm having to walk away before I lose my temper. Really wishing I would have just bought a 4-speed, clutch, shifter, and had the driveshaft cut down and balanced.
Thanks for the info. I thought there might be a adaptor plate involved. I am now puzzled. Never seen a gap like that.
If you can't slide the convertor forward to the flexplate maybe the hole in the back of the crank isn't big enough for the convertor pilot. Did this engine have a manual transmission before the automatic your putting on it now. Maybe there is a pilot bushing in the back of the crank that needs to be removed.
Used to have a Saginaw 3-speed. I pulled out the pilot bushing before I started putting the th350 in. Guess I'll have to pull the transmission back out. Oh boy. I'm starting to hate this junk truck. I thought all Chevy cranks could be used with an automatic. I left everything pretty stock and am trying to use stock parts to try and help everything go together easier. If I gotta get the crank machined I guess I'll just scrap the turd 307 and look for a cheap small block to run until I can get a real engine built.
From and oldman to a youngman. Step back and learn to control your temper. This ain't Jack as to rest of your life. As I told my granddaughter. Be clam all things work out. Cheapo torque converter might have some slag back on the inside of its pump locking ears. Slide the trans back drop the converter and take a look. Report back with a picture of what you found.
In product reviews on summit, sounds like a few others have had issues, can you measure and compare to another converter. installed this converter 2 years ago while doing an engine swap in my fiance's daily driver. While I had the engine out, I wanted to make sure the rest for the drive train was in good shape. I took the tranny in to a reputable shop for a once over and reseal. I was told the tranny was in great shape, and I should get many more miles out of it. I replaced a working converter with this one just to be sure I wouldn't have to be under the car for quite a few more years. The first thing I noticed was the huge gap between the converter and the flexplate when everything was bolted together. I used some machined 1/8" spacers to take up some of the slack. Then, about 6 months ago, I started hearing a whine when the car was put in gear. It got louder and louder until I finally pulled the tranny last week. The stator bushing in the converter was just gone. Had the tranny opened up again to find the front pump nearly destroyed, and many other parts in need of replacing. The warranty on this converter is for 90 days. That's about all its good for in a daily driven car with about 210 HP. I'll never buy another Summit Racing torque converter again. Another one Tried to install into th350 (summit brand th350 That was purchased at same time) would not go into transmission after searching for problem the torque converter part that slides into the trans was 4thousanths to big around I had some old converters layin around that I compared to
before i put a sbc/th350 motor and transmission together i ALWAYS try the torque convertor into the end of the crankshaft first. i have found some cranks with rust in the hole that keeps the torque convertor from seating...especially on an engine that had a manual transmission. sometimes there is a burr on the spud that sticks into the crank too just consider this a learning experience for you.....i found out the hard way too , that's why i check first!
Thanks everyone who chimed in to help. I got my dad down there and he finally got the converter to slide into the crank. There musta been a good bit of rust in the end. Luckily didn't have to drop it. This transmission and converter only need to last another year or two. By then I'll be able to get another engine and transmission that'll be beefier and better. I've got a 22k gvw cooler and thermostat that'll be mounted with a shroud in front of the radiator. I've got steel lines to run for the cooler and have a spare line to use for the vacuum modulator. Next time around it'll get a 327 (just cause it's cheap and I've already got a forged crank from another 307 I had). I've done a few drop-in engine swaps so at least I won't have to bug everyone with that. Got ahold of the builder and he said as long as there's less than 1" it should be good. He thought it would be fine. Only time will tell. I can't afford another converter right now, my only choice is to use what I got unless I can sell some of my spare parts. I don't expect the 307 will live much longer, had a lot of issues with detonation since I bought the timing up to stock spec (used a timing light and checked tdc). I've fixed the causes (vacuum leaks, mixture way too lean, fuel starvation, HEI bringing in too much advance too early) but I need to keep some money just in case it lets go. 325w, You're giving the same advice my family does. And both you and my family are right. I used to have a lot worse temper, this past year I've learn to walk it off.
You can always try the old water down the carb trick to knock carbon deposits out of the combustion chamber. I prefer a heavy mix of seafoam in the gas though. If there is carbon build up in the chamber it can create enough hot spots for pre-detonation. You mentioned fixing the hei, did you put a recurve kit in, explain more. A lot of guys here like 307's, you shouldn't have a problem getting rid of it when you're ready.
I've thought about the water or seafoam. Seafoam with have to go on sale before I can buy any. I fear what the bearings and pistons look like after what they went through. Part of the HEI's problem was that there was no bushings in the advance weights and it was pretty well all over the place, the timing wasn't consistent even at idle and I know the hold down was tight, harmonic balancer is in good shape and correctly marked. I actually just pulled the HEI out, ground the gear smooth, and used it to reposition the oil pump and swapped in a '68 points distributor that has a Pertronix Ignitor 2 kit in it for electronic ignition. That was a leftover from another 307. I do suspect there to be quite a bit of carbon deposits in the chambers. When I got it the timing was about 25 degrees retarded and it couldn't pull up a hill at wot.
Glad you found and fixed the converter/crankshaft problem...as for setting the timing on your 307....that low compression 307 should run at 40 degrees advanced without pinging.. Ok, maybe not that much but I don't trust the original timing marks any more. Too many slipped rings on vibration dampeners giving me a false reading. I am a firm believer in giving the engine a "drink of water" but get the timing backed of a little before doing it so it doesn't blow. I use a 2 lb coffee can and squeeze down one side to a point for pouring. Bring the engine to operating temp and pour the can to about 2/3rds full of really cold water. I like to bring the rpms up to about 3000 and begin pouring water down the carb...more water...more throttle until you're controlling RPMs with the water volume with the carb wide open. It'll blow a lot of crap out the pipes. Now, I set the idle and set the timing with a vacuum gauge...adjust idle as RPMs change with timing changes. Shut it off and restart...start ok? No kick-back on the starter? Take it for a test drive and drive up some hills in high gear....may have to "road time" it to get it perfect. BYW....I never heard of a forged 307 crank....327 but not a 307...maybe I think I know more than I do, eh?
It's got large journal 327 cast crank numbers. Forged parting line. Did the ring test, sounds forged. Numbers not defined like it would be on a cast crank. It's out of a 307 that was rebuilt and not maintained.010 under now and it needs to be polished again. It coulda been from a 327 originally I guess. Don't know. I'll post pictures if ya need proof.
I had never played around with automatics much, so when we put the TH350 in my Sons rpu we simply pulled the convertor forward enough to bolt up. Big mistake. It actually moved the rear of the convertor out of the front pump, so we had no gears. Took it to a local trans shop and they found broken tangs on the pump because we tried to run it not fully seated. I called Mondello (as it is an Olds engine) and they said to make sure the convertor is fully seated back in the pump by hearing and feeling it seat three times, as you spin it in a clockwise direction, then, simply pull it back out about 1/8 of an inch. If there is still a gap between the flexplate and convertor, use hardened steel washers to shim the distance so that the convertor doesn't get pulled any further out of the pump. I told them I was leery about doing that, and he said "That is what we do on our 1200 HP drag car, so don't sweat it !" We did, and it fixed the problem. I just did the same thing when I installed the 350 sbc and TH350 in my rpu project. Bottom line, don't pull the convertor out too far and do not be afraid to shim it with grade 8 washers to take up the gap. Don
I have never seen clearances that high before between the converter and flex plate. I have had converters that were rebuilt too short before though, although rare. If there is a 1/4" or more clearance between the converter and flexplate you need to shim it. Use washers that are the same thickness to get down to about 1/8" clearance. You need some clearance for converter ballooning. If your trans rebuilder told you, "if its less than ONE INCH clearance is ok" as you state in your post, you better get a new trans rebuilder! The depth of the pump gear drive notches in the converter hub are only around 1/2 inch deep. Pulling the converter that far out of the trans will pull the converter hub out of the pump gear. Further more, just what was the converter you put in? Your photo shows a converter that has a lock up style front cover. Is your trans a lockup or non lockup style? There are some converter companies that take a lockup style and build it into a non lockup style due to non lockup converter cores are getting older and older. Just want to make sure you have the right converter. I have never tried to put a lockup converter into a non lockup trans before, so I am not sure if it will even go in or even all the way. The spline count on the input shaft and stator are the same, but the lockup input shaft has a pilot on it. Bill
Converter is Summit Racing part number SUM-G2699. Got longer grade 8 bolts and grade 8 washers when I was in town. I just couldn't bring myself to just bolt it together like the builder said. I had won a new B&M th350 on eBay from a pallet liquidation company in Tennessee for $480 but they never let me pay. I really wish that woulda went together like I'd hoped. What brand converter do you guys recommend? Thinking I'll at least buy a better converter in a few months after I save some money. I don't need a high stall or anything, it's just a slow daily driver. I know the threads in the case aren't metric so it should be too early for it to be a lockup.
You are worrying about a non issue.......shim it, and use the longer bolts and you will be fine. Use the Summit convertor, if it is a slightly higher stall it won't hurt anything on a mild motor. As justpassinthru said, the key is not to pull the convertor too far out so that it won't be engaged into the pump ears any more. Just keep spinning the convertor and watch it drop down deep into the bellhousing, then only pull it about 1/8 of an inch out for clearance, put shim washers under it to take up that gap, and go with it. It isn't as unusual as you think to have to do this. Don
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