Piggybacking on Roothawg's great "cars that influenced history" thread: what cars built in the last 10 years have historic significance? As in, cars whose style will influence lots of others from here forward? I'd offer: Show rods: Boydster, and the many subsequent Chip Foose roadsters, established a new style of "idealized" early Fords (with no gennie parts whatsoever). Rat rods: PPE, the Shine pickup, and Rudy's pickup are highly visible examples of the over-the-top caricature hot rods. Customs: Cadzilla and Scrape have a similar significance to the Chip roadsters, but applied to customs: kinda like an old car, but made more extreme -- even if nothing's old, and it can't be driven. Sailor's point in the other thread, that there aren't really any new directions beyond chop/slam/exotic paint, seems to me to be true. Anybody see this differently? Another quandary: used to be that most self-respecting hot rods were wannabe lakes racers, drag cars, occasionally road racers -- but now, the racers that we copy are all old school. Hardly anybody builds Nascar racers for the street, or pro stock Camaros, or anything else that's closely related to current racer stuff. Wonder why?
Still thinking about the question. It's got some deep thoughts in it if taken in all honesty so it deserves more than a quicky answer. I'll give my two slugs worth in a little while... In the mean time I'm happy to say I found a new hot wheels in the latest sea of bling wheels that I actually wanted to spend a buck on. The Meyer's Manx purple with yellow seats dune buggy! (first one I've bought in months and I used to buy several each week.) Thanks for keeping some of them traditional, honestly..
Might that be because of the need of more time before knowing which cars that did change the history? If we are talking "traditional" customs: Cole did set a trend with his Chev p-u, the one with satin metallic. At least over here, I had never seen satin metallic before the feature in Custom Rodder. Now satin metallic is quite common on the custom events...
[ QUOTE ] Piggybacking on Roothawg's great "cars that influenced history" thread: what cars built in the last 10 years have historic significance? As in, cars whose style will influence lots of others from here forward? I'd offer: Show rods: Boydster, and the many subsequent Chip Foose roadsters, established a new style of "idealized" early Fords (with no gennie parts whatsoever). [/ QUOTE ] I think Im going to do this in bits of thoughts as they come to me and a string of small comments like RPW did. Show rods? Theyve been around since the 50s, just not of the same caliber of build, meaning they havent had the big budgets available for what appear to be hotrods, but are actually one off coach built cars like we saw only at Concourse Shows in the past. I said the 50s, but they came in strong in the 60s starting with the rather Bizarre cars like Wilhelms Wild Dream and Reisners Invader, and Jeffries Mantaray. I include these as precursors to the current Show Rods because they had the rake and silhouette of a rod, but didnt have any actual old car body panels, just similar-to-a-rod shaped panels. In other words, the ideas and license that spawned the recent ones (like spawning evil aliens?) EVOLVED from the early detours from cars wearing basically stock Ford roadster metal. You can lay some of the guilt on Ed Roth if you like, he built some of the earliest non-gennie-metal show rods (Thats gotta raise some shingles... ) [ QUOTE ] Rat rods: PPE, the Shine pickup, and Rudy's pickup are highly visible examples of the over-the-top caricature hot rods. [/ QUOTE ] I think the cars you cited are going to mark a time of renaissance, an anachronistic return to a style of the past, and the part of it I find most significant is the West coast infatuation in building East coast looking rods. I think that list should soon be updated soon with the car Rogue is building because even though it looks like the current low slung rat rods, it is being built with a much higher level of finish. [ QUOTE ] Customs: Cadzilla and Scrape have a similar significance to the Chip roadsters, but applied to customs: kinda like an old car, but made more extreme -- even if nothing's old, and it can't be driven. Sailor's point in the other thread, that there aren't really any new directions beyond chop/slam/exotic paint, seems to me to be true. Anybody see this differently? [/ QUOTE ] I dont think Cadzilla is demonstratively different from a car like the Golden Sahara as far as being all new work. Or maybe the DiDia Bobby Darin Dream Car from the very early 60s. It was all hand built and even though it is debatable as to whether it falls into the realm of Custom Car or not, it was featured in R & C in December 61 as a custom so it probably is seen as one to those who arent overly analytical, (me included there.) I find it interesting that I accept Cadzilla as a cool custom but look at that hand-made version of a 57 Chevy Boyds team did as a distorted cartoon car belonging on a Roth shirt. Its the particular distortions of proportions that I cant take seriously I guess. Yes, Sailor is right on in seeing every car coming down the pike getting its top chopped, something that used to only happen to the very few most extreme customs, and little else. For the most part they dont seem to go much further and how many have sort of disappeared from the scene? Are they hiding in garages getting their just "finishing" or have the quickly bored owners just let them be crushed like they are just another hunk of screwed up scrap metal? (not talking about the avid rodders and custom folk on the HAMB, just those other guys you see a couple of years and then thye disappear. [ QUOTE ] Another quandary: used to be that most self-respecting hot rods were wannabe lakes racers, drag cars, occasionally road racers -- but now, the racers that we copy are all old school. Hardly anybody builds Nascar racers for the street, or pro stock Camaros, or anything else that's closely related to current racer stuff. Wonder why? [/ QUOTE ] This is easy, You just aint lookin hard enough or maybe not venturing far enough East from the South Bay.... I know a guy who drives a replica of the Dodge truck pace car from a few years back, and theres still plenty of Pro-street Dodge Muscle Cars and tubbed Camaros doing what I wont say on various roads near Alameda and ??? On any given Saturday night. Enjenjo still has his Pro-Street version of a Pro Stock Hot Pink Marlin. Or maybe its just that the majority of the people who are the right age to want to build that era of race car replicas are too busy trying to break 9s with their actual new FWD race cars?
Just watched car #8 and DE Jr. win Daytonaand it occured to me. You couldn't build a replica "Stock car" from a stock car for the street because there's nothingstock on them. Sorta like the first IROC race cars were styled to resemble the IROC Camaro street cars, not the other way around.
Cool. Now we're getting somewhere. DrJ: I certainly didn't mean my nominations to be definitive, or even necessarily true. I was just offering some thoughts to start the conversation. I like what you've said, though, and would like to respond to it. When I cited the Chip cars and Cadzilla, I was pointing to the fact that these are very respectful of the lines and details of the cars they copy, but have been stretched and re-proportioned until they are something entirely different. I agree with your observation that you knew the MantaRay was a hot rod, and the Golden Sahara was a custom, because they had some familiar details or proportions to connect them to the category from which they were derived. What I find different in the newer cars is that a '34 grille or a finned Cadillac quarter has been stretched, sectioned, laid back, reshaped -- it's not the part you knew before, but you can still see what inspired it. Those earlier cars -- MantaRay et al -- were entirely new clothing on something close to a conventional corpus. I'm not suggesting that these idealized cars constitute a great trend for the future. But they are one of the things that's happening now, and it's likely that they will probably be copied or built upon by future constructors. More later.
On the late model race car thing this side of the pacific, the biggest thing is v8 touring car racing and both Ford and Holden (GM) race 5 litre V8 versions of their street cars and the street car and race car are pretty similar (other then the skills of the drivers) to look at, well the factory Hot versions or after market speed shop specails.
Sorry, had to put out some fires. To resume the conversation... AV8, I'm sorry you took down your post. Luckily, I read it before it went away. Perhaps you embarassed yourself by pimping your own car, but you were correct: when I first saw Bluey at Oakland, I was blown away by its purity and authenticity. It was likely the first car I saw during the '90s that was totally traditional, done in circa 1953 style, but with first-rate workmanship and finish. I agree that it has inspired many, many others to start similar projects. You, Vern, and Bluey all deserve a lot of credit for the inspiration that you provided. Of course, Bud Bryan did beat you to it...
DrJ: Glad you liked the Hot Wheels Manx. I think it was actually released last year, and then recolored in purple and yellow to honor a Mattel executive's similar buggy. Talking about trend setters, Bruce Meyers certainly started a huge one with the Manx (acknowledging that the dune buggy is outside our field of study, and now long gone). By the way, I retired from Mattel Hot Wheels in November, so I can't take much credit (or blame) for what happens beyond 2004. I would guess that the percentage of traditional cars will decline further.
RPW and DrJ: Cole and Rogue are two guys whose talents have already inspired others. There's a lot of tradition in the work that they do, but they clearly have fresh ideas that are beyond tradition. I think that they both demonstrate that it's not necessary to invest six figures in a car to have something that's distinctive and cool. I'd add Keith Tardel to that short list of young constructors. I think each of these three guys is influencing history because of his entire body of work, more than because of a single standout vehicle.
On the wannabe-racer front: Guys on this board build cars whose looks are derived from comp cars at Bonneville or Santa Ana from the early '50s. Cool, I say, that includes me too. 55Olds88's comment about contemporary V8 racers reminds me of the magazine-driven style called "pro touring". I like these too, and they're probably more fun to drive than our drag-racing-influenced drivers. I'd like to see more of these happening. ...which leads me inevitably to the tuner/rice-rocket fashion: Hondas and Mitsubishis on the ground, with big tailpipes and rubber-band tires. While only a few of these appeal to me, I see that these guys are imitating racecars as much as we are -- just a different variety. But there's stuff in between that's been overlooked. DrJ, you're right, it'd be impractical to build an authentic Earnhardt racer for the street, but how about a Dan Gurney '63 Galaxie? I'm not talking about numbers and sponsor graphics all over it, but the stance and the sound. Would be bitchin', no? Or a late Camaro, super low with huge tires, hoodscoop and spoiler like a current drag car. Those things have as sexy a silhouette as the Pierson Bros coupe, and it wouldn't be all that difficult to replicate. I'm not really concerned that nobody's done this; I'm just surprised that it hasn't happened already.
CadillacKid: I see Mark Moriarty's work as similar to AV8's, in a way. They are both keeping flames alive that had flickered a long time ago. It's pretty ambitious of Mark to attempt to extend a vision as wild and original as Roth's. As DrJ points out, cars like Outlaw and Beatnik Bandit borrowed some of their shapes and proportions from Ford-based hot rods, but by the time he got to Rotar he was definitely flying solo. I think Mark and Mike have both done a great service by reminding us of past styles that were outstanding. But let me ask you this: do you think that others will imitate Moriarty? Or, for that matter, Roth?
ButtReynolds: Yep, you're right. Those guys have definitely influenced the direction of the hobby. I'm pooped now, and I can hear you snoring at your computers all over the country. But I didn't start this thread just to rant; I'm really interested in hearing what the rest of you think on this subject. Anybody?
AV8-Mike - Bluey was the best. I remember the article you wrote years before you built ol blue. You had a time line for the whole project, That was a great read, but it was even more fun to see it come alive at Vern's. Your 29 would fit on any list of the greatest Hot Rods ever built. Chuck
[ QUOTE ] But there's stuff in between that's been overlooked. DrJ, you're right, it'd be impractical to build an authentic Earnhardt racer for the street, but how about a Dan Gurney '63 Galaxie? I'm not talking about numbers and sponsor graphics all over it, but the stance and the sound. Would be bitchin', no? [/ QUOTE ] I have a 23 year old buddy who is building a street version of Bobby Allison's 75 Matador. Admitedly not the prettiest car, but it should look bitchin as a NASCAR racer clone
Great. And certainly the noblest thing he could do with a '75 Matador. I'd like to see it when it's done!
What about Sniper ? Sure, way too modern for alot of HAMBers but it did seen to set the trend for customs of recent years ?
Tony -- Looking at my post in the thread made me a bit self conscious, looking like I'm a bit full of myself -- which I occasionally am! I read your flattering comments, and Chuck's -- thank you both -- and it occurred to me that killing my post also dismissed Vern's major role in building the roadster. So, I'm putting my post back in the thread, just as it appeared. Mike _______________________________________ At risk of sounding self-serving, my roadster we built in Vern Tardels shop in 94-95 appears to have a continuing influence on the traditional hot-rod build movement. The book that resulted from the project is a perennial best seller for MBI. The car, and the book, has created an on-going dialogue with rodders all around the country. More important, the car and book have inspired hundreds of project starts. And the very best of all is that the car and book are not viewed as a kit project as some have stated, but instead are regarded as a how-to for traditional methods using traditional parts. Finally, the car demonstrates that its still possible to build a well-turned-out hot rod for less than the price of an average new grocery-getter. I fear that this part of the message has been missed or misunderstood by many, however. The quest for outlaw edginess in the contemporary rat-rod movement is so pervasive that even well-built cars are made to look sketchy and dangerous. Its totally counter to what it was in The Day when rodders were trying to blend in and look respectable lest our movement be quashed by the establishment.
Enjoyed the read. Lots of food for thought here. AV8, I never get tired of seeing "Bluey", gives me the girls version of a woody every time.
You already nailed it. The ultimate knock-off car. You can find 10-20 clones at any big event. What else do you want.
[ QUOTE ] Great. And certainly the noblest thing he could do with a '75 Matador. I'd like to see it when it's done! [/ QUOTE ] I'd like to see a Matador chopped, sectioned, shortened, and narrowed down to a Hornet size chassis, like it should have been in the first place. Then I bet it would be a beautiful looking car!
I was going to nominate Blue too and the book it spawned. I think Cole's cars and bikes are influential. I think the 36 is going to mess with peoples' self esteam for at least a decade. I'd have to say the Black Dahlia and the Choppers' colection influenced me also.
The Jalopy Journal
