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Carb finishes? Whataya' Suggest?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by geemann51, Dec 3, 2003.

  1. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    Got the carbs apart and before re-assembly, I want to spruce up the finish and appearence. Gone are the days of the 20 buck-a-whack cadium prices, they now want 90.00. That is, once you find a place that still does it.

    What are some cost effective ways of achieving a finished, finish? I'm open to suggestions. As always, thanks.
     
  2. lakes modified
    Joined: Dec 2, 2001
    Posts: 1,283

    lakes modified
    Member Emeritus

    Eastwood sells some stuff called "carb renew" in a bronze color. they may have other colors, i don't know. i've had a can of it for 3-4 yrs now and have yet to get around to using it.thought it would look good with stainess screws. have yet to get the screws either, but one of these day's i will.
     
  3. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,842

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    I have a set that had the Eastwood stuff installed and the front carb is actually starting to lose it's finish. They looked really nice but now I wonder if just a good wire fine wire brush with a nonsoluble clear may be the answer.
    Most of what I have read with guys who rebuild plenty of these say it's best to not put a coating on them.
     
  4. whizzerick
    Joined: Nov 13, 2002
    Posts: 1,109

    whizzerick
    Member

    Geeman, the original finish on my motorbike's carbs was a 'golden hue' achieved by 'dyeing' the carb body. I use a product called ALODINE, it is a phosphate coating used in the marine industry as a primer for aluminium (or Zamak) and a protectant, left 'as is'. A liter will cost 15-20$ and it is re-usable. Dip the freshly cleaned (beadblasted is nice) carb body for 12 seconds (no more or it turns green) and you get a nice golden finish. It's commonly available at marine suppliers.
    whizzerick
     

  5. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    Thanks. I was thinking the Eastwood Carb Renew, but this Alodine stuff. You've used it with good results Whizzer? Does it leave any flakes and how does it hold up over time? Most of the applications online refer to the trreatment of aluminum and not good old carb metal, so I am very interested in this process. At this point, I am also very much on the cheap as well.
     
  6. whizzerick
    Joined: Nov 13, 2002
    Posts: 1,109

    whizzerick
    Member

    Geeman, 'carb metal' is an alloy of aluminium, zink and other metals and the Alodine will effectively 'die' it. The process is essentially a chemical reaction, so it's not a 'coating' like paint, more like anodizing. Fuel will not affect it. I have to warn you that the finish is not as 'sexy' as, say, cad plating. It's very flat. It looks very authentic (because it is) on restorations but lacks the WOW factor the Hot Rod crowd is accustomed to.
    Hope this helps,
    whizzerick
     
  7. Honest
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 159

    Honest
    Member
    from Dallas Tx

    go to a gun shop and get brown "bluing" fluid.
    Or blue if you like...it works well on the cast iron parts.
     
  8. BLAKE
    Joined: Aug 10, 2002
    Posts: 2,775

    BLAKE
    Member

    Damn - wish I knew about this Alodine stuff a couple of months back! [​IMG]

    I used a fine wire wheel on a vice-mounted grinder and shined up my 97s real nice. Not sure how long it'll last, but so far so good.
     
  9. Ayers Garage
    Joined: Nov 28, 2002
    Posts: 1,382

    Ayers Garage
    Member

    The real use of Alodine is airplanes. I've used it many times and it's exactly as was described above.

    When you get done with the part, just pour the leftover Alodine back into the jug for the next time you need it.
     
  10. Missing Link
    Joined: Sep 9, 2002
    Posts: 865

    Missing Link
    Member

    I used a few small wire brush attachments and a dremel tool to clean 40 years of crud off my 97's. There are several different size and grades of wire brushes available and the relatively small size of the dremel makes it easy to handle and get into small areas and crevices. There are also polishing attachments in different sizes available that will really make the metal's finish glow. After cleaning and reassembling everything I sprayed the carbs with a light coating of rattle can clear coat. Periodically I would move the linkages to make sure the clear coat did not make any moving parts stick as the clear coat dried. It seems to have worked alright but it has only been a year.
     
  11. Bugman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2001
    Posts: 3,483

    Bugman
    Member

    If you have a bench grinder, you can get a buffing wheel for it. Probably be less than $15 for a wheel and compound at any good hardware store. Sand with 400, and buff, comes out nice and shiney. Below is an exlample of a $5 swapmeet carb and an hours work.


     
  12. LIMEY
    Joined: Nov 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,986

    LIMEY
    Member

    Mine look like a gold cad finish, after being used for nearly two yrs they look much better with a little grime here & there.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,682

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    There seem to be a couple of types of Alodine. What are the differences?
     
  14. Alodine is a conversion coating that converts the surface from metal to a metal oxide, chemically. Anodizing does the same thing but produces a thicker coating and drives the reaction metal to metal oxide by electrical force.

    The gold color on carbs is from a chromate coating. It is not from alodine, although alodine has chromate in it and that produces the gold color. Chromate is also what makes the old cadmium plated parts have that gold appearance. Cad plating itself is silver color, same as zinc plating. The chromate is what makes it gold color. Chromate can actually be from light yelolow to dark gold, or olive drab color. There is also clear chromate that is what you find on most hardware store bolts that are zinc plated, it has a very slight blue tinit or slight irridescent look. The clear has almost no Cr+6 ions and is not as good as the gold. Olive drab is the best, but kinda ugly appearance wise.

    The problem is that chromate is hard to get for home use. The active element in chromate is Cr+6 ion, which is carcinogenic. So you can't just go but it at your local hardware store. If whizzer is correct and you can get alodine form a boat repair place, that should work fine. Alodine is a commercial name, but anyone willknow what you are referring to if you call it that. Specifically it is chemical conversion coating, also sometimes called "chromatizing" especially outside the USA.
     
  15. whizzerick
    Joined: Nov 13, 2002
    Posts: 1,109

    whizzerick
    Member

    38, thanks for the chemical overview.
    Here is a link to a supplier for Alodine 1201 from
    US Paint.
    A quart should suffice. Hope this helps.
    whizzerick
     
  16. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    Whizzerick, any chance you could post a picture of something treated with Alodine. I want my carbs to look like carbs. Some of the carb paints make them look like Christmas tree ornaments.
     
  17. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    I thought I'd give this allodine a try. I had to use a day off from work before next week, so I took today off and decided to track down a little alodine, take it up to where my cars is being worked on, and give it a shot. After the carbs are reassembled and installed it will be ready to start, so I was anxious to try it. I thought the finish Whizzer described was just what the car needed to tone it down a tad.

    After a few deadend calls this morning, I finally find an aircraft supply place who said they had an allodine product by the name of Aluma-dyne. Long story short I drove out and sprung 20.00 on the phosphoric acid etcher and the Aluma-dyne. I don't think this is the stuff. As nice as the etcher did really cleaning the pieces, the Aluma-dyne did little than leave a very faint golden hue. Oh well, live and learn.

    There's a West Marine in town so I may give this a try tomorrow.

    http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=136

    Either way, I going to order a couple cans of the Carb Renew from Eastwood. I'll let you know how this saga plays out.
     
  18. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    Well, I have had this thread saved and before I delete it, I thought I'd share my saga and it's findings for those who might be interested.

    As my earlier posts on this on this subject indicated, I tried the Alodine approach, first with a product called Alumadyne. I picked this up at an aircraft supply house. While reading the instructions, it mentioned that it would leave an invisible layer. When I asked about the golden coating, the staff at the store said that it would give me the result I was after. Well they were wrong. Alumadyne, a hybrid if you will, of Alodine is designed to treat aluminum WITHOUT a golden coating. Nothing wrong with the stuff, I would use it again if needing to prep aluminum for paint. The phosporic etch kicked butt! Cost of this phase of experimentation, 24.00

    With the "hybrid" fact under my belt, I made it out to the coast to a marine supply store for some honest to goodness Alodine. Long story short, it worked, but left an almost dirty-rust finish that was inconsistent. Not the look I was after for this project, but if I was ever in the need to distress something and make it look old, this stuff would be just the ticket! Cost of phase two, 28.00.

    By now, I'm bummin' a bit. the platers I called (4 total) wouldn't do it due to the quantity or they wanted 90.00 for each carb (x's three), a little rich for my blood. Screw it, I ordered the Carb Renew from Eastwood and was good. A week later, I got two cans of their golden paint. Total cost with shipping 28.00

    Before I got to call the fella who's helping me with the car, he calls me. He starts the call by saying "Hey, I'm down here at the salvage place buying fasteners, etc and there is a plating place accross the street that will cad plate all three of your carbs for 40.00!" Long of the short of it, I went for it and had em' back in two days and they are perrty!

    So the learnings..... Keep lookin' people are still cad plating for a reasonable fee and Alodine works best for aluminum prep, at least in this instance.

    Total money spent on carbs.....120.00
    Learning, doing, experimenting.........PRICELESS

    By the way, the plater is Lemon Grove Plating in National City, CA. (just south of San Diego proper) Hope this helps........



     
  19. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    [ QUOTE ]
    it worked, but left an almost dirty-rust finish that was inconsistent.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Inconsistent finish with Alodine (or any of the copy-cats) is usually attributable to surface prep.

    I used to use Alodine 1201 that I purchased at a local aircraft supply house for rebuiding Holleys way back when. One of the other problems is it will dye it different shades depending on how the surface was prepped & how long it's left in (to an extent). Another variable is carb bodies are typically an alloy & not pure aluminum like Alodine was intended for. This also affects the color.

    I had good results, but it was a more brownish-yellowish color than the origina greenish tint - looked fine in my opinion though.

    For the record, my dad recently used the Eastwood stuff for the Linkert on his WL & it turned out nice. I prefer the coloring to the Alodine.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. delaware george
    Joined: Dec 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,246

    delaware george
    Member
    from camden, de

    well lets see the cad plated carbs [​IMG]
     
  21. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    well lets see the cad plated carbs [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    George, you got it, just give me some time. I wisked the carb bodies up to where my cars at, so I don't have em' here at the house. I'll be up to see it over the weekend, so I'll snap some digi's and post em, all I have now are the befores....

    [​IMG]
     
  22. badpat
    Joined: Feb 28, 2003
    Posts: 522

    badpat
    Member

    eastewood carb renew aint that good, looks great, but my holley weep a lot and the continued gas exposure damages the finish
     
  23. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    [ QUOTE ]
    eastewood carb renew aint that good, looks great, but my holley weep a lot and the continued gas exposure damages the finish

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well thank goodness linkerts don't leatk [​IMG] [​IMG] Guess my dad will find out! His WL should be up & running (again) soon.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. jerry
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,473

    jerry
    Member

    damn but thats' one nice looking set-up there geeman!

    going to be at the ranch run?


    jerry
     
  25. delaware george
    Joined: Dec 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,246

    delaware george
    Member
    from camden, de

    that's a cool exhaust setup...i found this guy gerald that sells chrome rebuilt carbs for a decent price with no core charge...94's and 97's...took about two weeks to get these
     

    Attached Files:

  26. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    Jerry, The RR is my goal, but I'm not ssure I'll be driving the 51. I have to get the whole DMV/insurance thing taken care of, and don't know if I'll be able to pull it off by then. I was thinking that the run would be last weekend of the month, the 17th threw me a bit of a curve. More than likely will be there, in my own car....we'll see. Intake looks good, huh?

    For everyone else, I got the carbs and intake from Jerry about 2 years ago and polished it up a bit. Once I have the car running and some of the bugs worked out, I was going to do a "The car the HAMB built..." thread, there are so many pieces that have come from different HAMB'rs either through trades or just solid good deals. Stay tuned.

    George, as far as chroming the carbs, these are going to be hidden under the hood and I'm already beating myself up for spending so much time/money on making a pretty motor, but my thought is it's like wearing clean underwear(thanks mom), noones necessarily going to see it, but if they do..... well you get the piucture. Chrome would be nice, but not necessary. The Rochestee's are really nice and are a correct match set. Seems like they are getting harder and harder to find with an associated price tag. I will keep an open eye for another set of three to build up and have on the shelf as a spare or maybe for the next project.

    I promise to post pics of the NEW finish, plus the bitchin' chrome helmet air cleaners I got for em'. I can't wait to see it all together as well! Take care and MERRY CHRISTMAS to my HAMB FAMILY!
     
  27. geemann51
    Joined: Dec 16, 2001
    Posts: 2,119

    geemann51
    Member

    As requested by Delaware George, here is a pic of the finished carbs....
    [​IMG]
     
  28. delaware george
    Joined: Dec 5, 2002
    Posts: 1,246

    delaware george
    Member
    from camden, de

    that looks great...thanks for the photo..i don't know why but the look of the carb makes alot of motors for me
     
  29. Good info, Gee. Looking at same issue for my T's intake. Thinking of Jet-Hot.
     

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