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Hot Rods Can mag wheel bolt pattern be changed ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Belair1964, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Hey all if I cant find the answer here then I wont find it anywhere ! I bought a set of old Ansen Top Eliminator wheels for my 61 Pontiac wagon. Big Pontiac is a 5 on 5 pattern. My problem is 2 wheels are 5 on 5 Pontiac and 2 are 5 on 4 3/4 Chevy. They came off a 55 gasser with a Pontiac rear end. Is there a way to open up the 4 3/4 bolt patter to 5” ? Anyone know a machinist that has done this ? I love these wheels and doubt I will find a pair with Pontiac bolt pattern so trying to use what I have.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. My friend Craig Naff can weld magnesium. He filled the lug holes my old Halibrands. Then I just redrilled them myself. If your interested in that. PM me, and I'll give you his phone number. Ron....
     
  3. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,410

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    Hombre and egads like this.
  4. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,831

    Budget36
    Member

    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
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  5. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,215

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    Swade41 on here had a set of press in inserts made for a set, I'm sure He'll chime in when he See's the thread... Simplest/cleanest way to go about it
     
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  6. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 3,200

    slowmotion
    Member

    Run 'em up front. That Belair would look tuff as nails with steelies & cheaters on the back! (I know, no help):D
     
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  7. jerry123
    Joined: Dec 7, 2011
    Posts: 54

    jerry123
    Member

    they looked good on my 61 wagon
     
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  8. TA DAD
    Joined: Mar 2, 2014
    Posts: 225

    TA DAD
    Member
    from NC

    can't you get your drums redrilled or find some with the 4.75 bc
     
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  9. If the wheels came off of a Pontiac rear, wasn't that originally a 5" bolt pattern ? Are the original holes still in the axle for the 5" pattern ? Or, have the axle flanges re-drilled for the 5" pattern.
     
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  10. rustydusty
    Joined: Apr 19, 2010
    Posts: 1,644

    rustydusty
    Member

    My buddy had the same issue and found a machine shop that milled them out like a unilug wheel. He puts lots of miles on it with no problems...
     
  11. ramblin dan
    Joined: Apr 16, 2018
    Posts: 2,090

    ramblin dan

    I made a mold about thirty years ago to check wheel patterns of axles and wheels and here are the dimensions in case anyone is interested. Hope it helps.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. foolthrottle
    Joined: Oct 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,033

    foolthrottle
    Member

    maybe?
     

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  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 46,694

    squirrel
    Member

    He didn't mention how wide any of these wheels are....

    But that's my thought also, find some other kind of wheels for the other end of the car. 60s cars just don't look right when they have matching front and rear wheels
     
  14. Callmaker
    Joined: Feb 17, 2020
    Posts: 70

    Callmaker
    Member

    Could you change the bolt pattern on the hub instead of the wheel??
     
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  15. 41rodderz
    Joined: Sep 27, 2010
    Posts: 5,156

    41rodderz
    Member
    from Oregon

    The guys that are encouraging you to run a different set of wheels instead of the 4 3/4 bolt pattern are spot on . Are they 15” and what is the width ? I have a pair of those Ansens in 4 3/4 “ bolt pattern and need another pair . I have an original Rader set in 15” 5” bolt pattern. Hint , hint .
     
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  16. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Thanks for the replies. The wheels are aluminum and 14x6 with a Chevy 4 3/4 bolt pattern and I need to use them on a 5” bolt pattern on a 61 Pontiac wagon. I have 2 with the 5” and 2 with the 4 3/4 so I need to get the 4 3/4 opened up. Right now the wagon has some kind of unilug Supreme type wheel with an offset I dont like due to the tires close to rubbing on the fender. They do not have any of the old unilug style washers, just oval holes that are dual bolt pattern. If the aluminum can be opened up to fit the Pontiac that would be easiest. Just not sure how or who. I can leave the Supremes on , I can put steels with original dogdish or I can have the aluminums modified. I prefer the aluminums modified if possible. I like the look 869E6FCB-D733-4AD1-8FBF-1B548A0F55E0.jpeg F69E5E9D-0544-4CD9-BFA6-9E97CA69D570.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
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  17. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 1,339

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Just a guess, but since GM often used the same parts on different brands, is there any chance a Chevy front hub might fit on the Pontiac spindle ? Just guessing..........

    I went over to RockAuto and looked at the wheel bearings being used for Chevy and Pontiac for that year and they were the same. You might look for the spindle part number or compare the actual spindles since the bearings are the same.;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
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  18. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 4,071

    1934coupe
    Member

    Lots of suggestions here. I have slotted the 4-3/4" BC to 5"BC on my Americans. It has shouldered lug nuts and washers and there is no adverse problems. A milling machine and an end mill and an 1/8" shave will get it done.

    Pat
     
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  19. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Yes these use shouldered too. Anyone know agood machinict shop in Chicago area that may be able to do this ?
     
  20. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    I just had the ball bearing hubs converted to taper bearings and they are the same as Chev being A2 and A6 bearings. Worth looking into if there is a 11x3 drum that will work with the Chev hub. Hub dimension would be critical. Thanks for the suggestion.
     
  21. I don't know where in Illinois you are but if St. Charles isn't too far you might call
    Auto Machine Inc. 630-584-1188
     
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  22. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    St. Charles is about 45 minutes but thats a hop skip and a jump ! Thanks.
     
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  23. Stan Back
    Joined: Mar 9, 2007
    Posts: 782

    Stan Back
    Member
    from California

    Some times you don't get it right the first (or second) time . . .

    Wheel1 copy.jpg
     
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  24. Personally I hate wheel adapters so in my eyes you either redrill your hubs and drums or machine the wheel for unilug, since the wheel is flat on back and takes a shouldered shank there wouldn't be a problem and the washer may even cover your unilug.
    This is a photo of a 15x6 but I'm sure your 14x6 looks the same, should be a 11/16's hole. 102_6499.jpg 102_6502.jpg
     
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  25. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    This exactly what I want to do. I called the machine shop noted above but the owner is out til Monday. Hopefully they will try it. Wheel adapters are 1”. They will not work.
     
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  26. Ericnova72
    Joined: May 1, 2007
    Posts: 421

    Ericnova72
    Member

    Just like all of these posts have said. several wheel manufacturers in the late 60's and 1970's and maybe into the 1980s did this….they were called "dual-fit"(not the same as "uni-lug") and were typically two bolt patterns not more than 1/2" different. Most common was 4-1/2 Ford/AMC/Chrysler combined with 4-3/4" GM car. Each lug hole slotted by 1/8" in that case.
    On the 4-1/2" pattern, the inner 1/2 of the shank of the lug contacted the inner radius of the slot and located the wheel on the pattern. On the 4-3/4" pattern, it was the opposite and the outer 1/2 side of the lug shank contacted the outer radius of the slot and located the wheel on the pattern.
    I've got 2 sets of Western Wheels slot mags like this, and I've seen Appliance and a couple others the same.
    I've got 4 Motor Wheel 4.5" skinnys with the 4-1/2" pattern i picked up at a yard sale I'm going to throw up on the big drill press with a fixed drill guide fixture and turn them into dual-fit for my Chevy stuff when I get the time and am over at my Pop's shop.

    No fancy lugs, just common straight shank mag and washer. Lug shank length matched to thickness of wheel center.

    It's no big deal....it's not troublesome like the oblong washer in a big pocket deal like ET-Uni-lugs are.
     
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  27. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,772

    Corn Fed
    Member

    Time out. Your title says mag wheel, yet you said they are aluminum. Here on the HAMB, a mag wheel is made of magnesium. If you are using the term "mag" as slang for any non-OEM alloy wheel, please stop. Using that term in that way is akin to calling all unpainted cars rat rods or calling concrete cement.
    Now, for your dilemma. Some people are ok with making the rims into uni-lugs. I personally am against it. I would never run them. And if you did that to a real pair of magnesium rims you'd be totally destroying the value of them. True uni-lug rims offered by some of the manufacturers has special oval washers that sat in a recess to help support the lug. You wouldn't have that feature. I am for either finding the correct rims, redrilling your hubs to 4-3/4", or swapping the hubs for Chevy's with 4-3/4".
     
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  28. Belair1964
    Joined: Aug 19, 2015
    Posts: 31

    Belair1964
    Member
    from Illinois

    Got it and thanks for reminding me of the reasons they were called “mags” . Yes aluminum wheels and as stated above I would need them machined “dual fit” which is what the Supreme style wheels are that currently reside on the car. Fingers crossed the machine shop can handle it. Never going to find a pair of 14x6 with a 5” bolt pattern.
     
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  29. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 4,322

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I had a set of those dual pattern wheels one time, both Ford and Chevy pattern. Used them on both Fords and Chevys when I had them, never had any problems with them, I should have kept them. Last time I saw them they were on a 57 Chevy, still looked as good as they did when I owned them. Only reason I let them go was I didn’t have anything they would fit at the time, and they were 14”.
     
  30. killbilly
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 256

    killbilly
    Member

    I agree with Chris 100%...I would not modify a wheel to be a unilug even if it is possible....Dont know where you are in Chicago but Gary In isnt far...Gary Bridge & Iron right off Grant St....Steve Truchan...219/884/3792
     

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