Technical Cadillac flathead horsepower tricks

Ok, i don't expect a huge response, but hopefully someone will have some answers.

I'm building a balanced cadillac flathead,electronic ignition, with cyclone heads, burrell 2x2 intake, dual exhaust, and a bigger cam. This is all i've come up with to improve the performance.

Has anyone tried different/bigger intake valves, and if so, which ones? How about different 3.5" pistons, that would raise compression .25-1?
what about a better rear main seal, anyone know of one?

Any other tricks that i'm missing, or that someone wants to share?


Thanks in advance.

 

Back for the morning crew.

 

hi buddy!
you know i have the same plans as you...the only flat caddy i have seen using bigger valves, is the one Aaron von minden has. its an old front mount blown engine, used on the salt's back then.
i have been given it some thoughts to use other pistons though.
maybe aaron see this...and give us a couple of details!
remember to send me a couple of pics when you get home
-palle

 

Palle! I'll send the pics. I'm trying to find some 3.5 pistons, with a slightly different pin position. Even a 1/8 difference will help.when i get home to check the valves, i'm going to try and go slightly larger, depending on the space available. Are you using a custom cam? If so, how much did you bump it?

Thanks

 

If you haven't already heard from Cyclone Kevin and you have the heads, you may want to take a look at the bottom. Seems they forgot to drill out the water passage holes. It makes them run really hot without them.

 

T mcg,
thanks for the "heads" up! Kevin has the heads polished and done, and is waiting on the intake to be polished before shipping.
I'm sure if there is/was a problem, that it is/has been take care of. Kevin seems to be a stand up guy, and i doubt that he would let them go if he knew of a problem.

Buddy

 

AAHH polished burrell intake!
that is a super good looking intake..especially compared to edmunds!
i'll be back to you buddy.
-palle

 

Not totally familar with the Cadillac flathead, but if you want bump compression why not mill the heads.
Don't know about getting pistions, but why not offset grind the crank like a flathead, to gain
the 1/16 to 1/8 more stroke........assuming the ring lands are far enough down the piston.

Just some ideas.

 

Palle, is there anything for these you don't have? I saw one of your post where you had a couple sets of edmund heads! You get a timing cover from russ?

 

A chopped coupe- because of the added lift from the cam, i need to see if there is any more room to mill the heads. The crank grind may be the way to go. I've never tried it, but makes sense. Thank you!

 

Buddy, seems the only other performance addition would be a blower.
Something like a 471!!!
The crank grind sounds interesting.
Using solid lifters goes hand in hand with some of the other items mentioned.

 

Russ, the crank grind does sound interesting! However, one would need rods with a smaller journal diameter, or thicker bearings, to make up for the grind. When i get home, i'm going to measure, and see if it is do-able. I'll keep you posted. I am also going to see if i can convert some old ford adjustable lifters for a solid cam.

The 471 blower would be awesome, but i'm trying to go a little cheaper route, as all these other parts are breaking the bank, and i've already bought the 2x2 intake. Guess i could sell it and start on a blower intake....

I should be taking the timing cover to the machine shop when i get home, and i'll post pics!

 

I wrote the reply to this 6 times and just when I get it ready to send, I keep getting booted! Wrote on word instead and then transfer it here.

Arizona Street Rods and I had a mutual customer that had purchased a set of our Flathead Cad heads. He had a Speed and Marine shop do the build. Arizona Street Rods installed the engine and trans in the build and went to fire it up.

Bringing it up to temp they notice that the block was staying cool and the heads were getting hot. Puzzled-They placed a call to me. I spoke with Rod Palmer there and we conferred that we had a blockage in the area of the gaskets.
<O</O

This proved to be a correct diagnosis. Upon seeing the gaskets by way of email, I looked them over and noticed that the block side of the gaskets showed a rust pattern where the cooling holes (5 of them) were blocked off by the currently available replacement metal gaskets.
<O</O

Same area as our heads. So these gaskets were now blocking off the heads cooling holes and the blocks which are inline with one another. They shoot me off an email and I of course refer to a post on the World Famous HAMB, done by InDaShop.<O</O
<O</O

In that comparison of the Cyclone and the Edmunds I noticed that their cooling holes are similar to the early V8 Ford Flatheads. I emailed their parts mgr these pics that Wyatt had taken and then provided a suggestion that would immediately remedy the situation.<O</O
<O</O

It would be easier to drill the heads to the pattern of gasket right then and there than to wait to find a gasket similar to what is required. The other choice was to drill the gasket, but what about the fire rings and seal around those newly made holes in the gasket.
<O</O

Rod and I spoke on Friday and problem was solved. He was happy with our customer service
And thanked me for our insight. Glad to have been of assistance, Kinda puzzled on why the engine builder didn&#8217;t catch this?
<O</O

So I learned something here. And I attempted to contact all customers that had these heads in their possession. (Hadn&#8217;t gotten to all yet before 38Flattie brought this post reply to my attention).

Below is one of their emails to me. hope this clears things up. I have almost 5 hours in trying to show it you guys.

CK.

2







To: [email protected]
Subject: Cad Engine
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:30:29 -0700

<STYLE>.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P{padding:0px;}.ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}</STYLE>Kevin, attached are the pics of the head and gasket, hopefull you can see that the water jacket holes are not in the head. the outline you see on the head is where the holes in the gasket and the holes in the block dead end at the head. please advice us on where to drill the gasket and head, or whatever is necassary to remidy this problem. Please review the pictures and respond either by e-mail or phone.

Thanks Again.
Brady Leiby
Parts Mngr.
Arizona Street Rods

 

Thanks Buddy 4 the heads up- I handled it last week and I hope that our customers read this as well.

Sincerely,
Kevin

 

Kevin,

thank you for taking the time to clear up this misunderstanding. I was confident that it was something simple, and probably already corrected.

I'm glad that was the case.

 

I know we flathead Cadillac nuts are only a small community but it is great to get some technical chat posted on the HAMB, nice work Buddy.
If anybody else out there has something to add, it will always be welcome here.
Anything to help keep our profile out there.

We have been talking engine performance, but what about fly wheel stuff for these monsters, anybody had any luck or tried out mods in this department?

 

Panic, thank you for the info! That clarifies it a lot.

When i return home from work, i will measure the journals, and let you know. Unless russ, palle, or someone else can get it sooner?

There is not a lot of info or speed parts out there for these, but there are a few more people starting to try them. I know that we all appreciate any knowledge, ideas, or info that is passed along.

Russ, i've wondered the same thing, aluminum maybe?

 

Thanks Panic, that was a nice read.

 

who said blown cadillac flathead!??

 

kevin...i was planning to find the gasket i have, and try to compare the edmunds and cyclone heads..but i is easy to see what to do..no problemo!!
did you get in touch with 005 in australia!? if not ill send wayne a word!
hope he's doing okay!
keep talking!
-palle

 

Cool that you got all figured out, I just wanted to shed light on it.
I did email Wayne, Go ahead and let him know as well.
Send me pics of the Vanilla Deuce.

Kevin

 

Kevin,

i'm glad to hear it was all a head gasket problem, and nothing more! It's so easy for bad information to be passed along, and it's nice when we can correct that same bad info!

I can't wait to see those heads next week!

And oo7, i'm gettin # 13! It just doesn't get any better than that!

Seriously guys, i'm still hoping to get some more technical tips here on this motor- ant more advice?

 

buddy i ordered 007 for the secret bond project! ha ha

 

Well palle, how about some pics? You can't keep it secret forever!

 

how about it guys? I won't be home for two-three weeks,

anyone know these specs?

 

Kevin got ahold of me for some input. Sorry havent been as ingrained in the HAMB as I used to be.

The problem has nothing to do with the blocks or the heads (stock block, stock/aftermarket heads).

It is the head gaskets. Total design flaw and oversight by the gasket manufacture. I am assuming that all the CF gaskets out there currently are all made by the same place, and sold via many different outlets (Egge as an example). They are 90% correct, but you need to open the waterpassage holes on the gaskets for them to work. I highly doubt that I don't have an orginal set left either in paper or on a block. So I'm going to look and take pics to give a comparison to what they should look like to what the "NEW" ones out there look like.

I am truely surprised that whoever assembled that motor didnt notice there were ZERO holes showing on the head for water to reach since they were all closed off behind a metal gasket

Wyatt

P.S. Kev's supposed to send me some pics of the AZ motor for comparison.

 

Wyatt,

thanks for the input! Like you, i'm surprised the builder did not catch it.i spoke with kevin this morning, and he stated the same as you.

I'm glad that we are able to put this mis-information about the heads to rest, and point out a problem with the gaskets for future builds.

 

I am a little to conservative really, as I dont believe these engines would be able to with stand big increases in HP and be reliable, but that is only my take on things.
I like getting the efficiency thing happening as you have achieved with your current mods.

I do believe once efficiency has improved especially torque then it maybe time to look at fly wheels and diff ratios to exploit your improvements.

I know if you are running your engine in a Cadillac body you will still have a weight issue.
However in my case I can exploit less weight in a hot rod project

 

Weight? Russ, are you trying to say that my caddy is heavy? Only 3850lbs! Lol!
You should definately have a good weight ratio on yours, and mine is damn heavy.
I'm just looking for the little tricks, and big ones, that have been done, to see what options i have. One i'm building for everyday driving, and one i'm building for a light weight rod.

C'mon guys! I know there is a lot more kowledge out there, how about sharing some of it!

 

Aside from the obvious issues with more hp (its a flathead) is the bearing mains. That crank just doesnt have the support to make big hp. So yeah effieciency, and tweaks, but not High HP application is my take.