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Cadillac 472/500 engine family

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by zombiesarebad, Sep 28, 2010.

  1. zombiesarebad
    Joined: Aug 29, 2009
    Posts: 206

    zombiesarebad
    Member
    from Maine

    I've been looking around for an engine to go in my 41 Plymouth... wanted a 413 but can't seem to find one. I did notice that the big Caddy motors are around though, and I've always wanted to build one. The problem is nobody seems to know a lot about them and what I can find elsewhere on the 'net doesn't seem all that reliable. Even cad500parts.com seems a little fanciful (20 hp from using their oil pans? 420 hp from an 8:1 compression engine?). Then there was the old guy at the car show who said "slap some 472 heads on a 500 and you got yourself a 500 horse motor!".

    so what I wanna ask is, does anyone here have firsthand experience building these? My goal is at to obtain at least 400 horse and come in at or under $3500, which could probably only be done by purchasing a running engine and bolting on the proper parts. I've heard that the stock bottom end can handle obscene amounts of power, but again, that's just what I've "heard"...
     
  2. Mattilac
    Joined: Oct 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,145

    Mattilac
    Member

    No first hand experience yet... but soon, oh so soon. I'm building a 500, it should be really badass. I like how these engines are designed.

    Try cadillacpower.com for a decent forum on these torque monsters. 500cid.com is a good source for your performance parts.
     
  3. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,598

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    they make gobs of torque but cadi motors are not cheap to build-bbc would be a better route
     
  4. 40StudeDude
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 9,444

    40StudeDude
    Member

    Not necessarily true...on either the cost or going with a BBC...

    R-
     

  5. zombiesarebad
    Joined: Aug 29, 2009
    Posts: 206

    zombiesarebad
    Member
    from Maine

    matt, do you have any plans yet on how it will be built?
     
  6. I did a 500 for a friends 1/2 ton 67 chevy truck cams are out there we used a 282 Hy lifters the intake was the big expence around 560 bucks the heal on the 472/500 is the intake sets down below the deck. we at first used a 2 inch spacer it helped alot. but found the intake in time. the heads need some cleaning on the pockit but breaths well at high RPMs when done with the 411 gears the motor was at power very fast.
    the real down side was at 45 you kick in passing gear and it would get scary real fast
    and thats with L50s in back. we used stock pistons and rods there good for todays gas.
     
  7. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,002

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    OK. I had to wait less than a week for somebody to ask about 500 inch Cads being any good. If you search back a few days you can find a thread about Iron Cad with Iron Crank goes 400 on gas. Yes it did a 485 cubic inch turbocharged gas burning streamliner went well over 400 several times last week at Bonneville and is still running, but not the turbo. Maybe you could contact Specter to see what they think
     
  8. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 7,082

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Uh, wrong-O on that. I have a '68 high compression 472 that's .060 over in my '36 roadster. I used cam and valvetrain componants from MTS, and ported the stock intake (very little clearance underhood) and heads per their reccomendations. It's 10:1 using Egge pistons, runs great on pump (premium) gas, and, according to MTS, with how it's set up, is 400 hp. Remember, these are 375 stock. An Edelbrock intake flows much better than stock, headers supposededly really wake them up, and you'll want rocker shafts as opposed to the stock pedestal rocker arm set up to turn it over 4500 rpm, but, it's scary fast as is.

    You can't find reliable info on the 'net? You're not looking very hard. Expensive? Mine was all in at less than 2500 bucks, counting the machine work (hot tank, crank 10 under, resize the big ends of the rods, bore, valve job and assemble the heads). That's dirt cheap power, AND it gets 18 mpg on the highway.

    Nothing at all wrong with a BBC, but don't believe all the good advice you get here...;)
     

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    tb33anda3rd likes this.
  9. Mr.Musico
    Joined: Jan 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,598

    Mr.Musico
    Member
    from SoCal

    not trying to create a bbc versus cadi thread, but if you can build a cadi engine for less than a bbc, you have done something right! I love cadi motorr, I know first hand the power they can make.
     
  10. Get on some of the "E-mod" (IMCA) forums. A lot of those guys ran 500 Cads 10-15 years ago, and there were some aftermarket parts available at the time.

    The 472 head trick is real, but it gives you about 12:1 compression. Those engines are nothing to laugh at, the late 60s - early 70s Cads would move, and there was no "weight saving"...
     
  11. Curious thing about the weight: my '70 DeVille ('vert) weighed in at 4950 wet. That's on a certified scale, not 'off the top o' me 'ead'.

    New Volvo XC90 weighs over 6,000 pounds.

    Just FWIW.

    And, yes, that Caddy did move very well, thank you. 16 mpg if I went v*e*r*y easy, 12 mpg everyday. Nothing special except HEI.

    Cosmo
     
  12. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 7,082

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Guess I did something right! :D
     
  13. 40StudeDude
    Joined: Sep 19, 2002
    Posts: 9,444

    40StudeDude
    Member

    Didn't read it that way...that's why I said it wasn't necessarily true.

    My 500" Cad engine cost me $2000.00...and that's doing everything to it...all brand new.

    I'd say that's at least less than a BBC (and since I've never had a BBC built, I don't know), but if it isn't then it's comparable to a BBC.

    R-
     
  14. undergroundss
    Joined: Jun 6, 2009
    Posts: 90

    undergroundss
    Member

    Another advantage for the Caddy...weight savings. An all-iron 500 cad weighs a lot less than an all-iron bbc and about 50 lbs heavier than an all-iron sbc. I put a stock '76 500 in a '40 Pontiac Sedan. With a 3.08 ratio, the thing flat hauls. I am putting an Edelbrock Performer manifold on (because of the good rep they have). Shaft rockers are really only needed for 4000 rpm and up. These engines like to tug, not rev.
     
  15. Rich Rogers
    Joined: Apr 8, 2006
    Posts: 2,018

    Rich Rogers
    Member

    Exactly all the way around. The weight savings plus the huge torque even with a tall rear will surprise you. I'm wondering about my 472 with a 700R built to handle it and a 3:73 rear. Anybody know if there's a plate to adapt the 700 to a Caddy?
     
  16. Bloodandmotoroil
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 154

    Bloodandmotoroil
    BANNED

    im a big fan of a 500, and i'd only use a bbc if i wanted to blend in and hug a tree or something while eating bbq tofu.
     
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  17. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 7,826

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    Even if a caddy cost a little more to build you can get them cheaper then a bbc so it will make up for the difference,everyone around here thinks a bbc is gold and wants about a grand for one and you can buy a running and driving caddy for alot less.
     

  18. http://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page031.htm

    Another possibility would be to use a 200-4R, which has both Chevrolet & the B-O-P-C pattern on the case...it will need to be built & upgraded to handle the torque, but the same can be said for most transmissions.
     
  19. bamabob
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 157

    bamabob
    Member

    The big Caddy engines are best if you are wanting moderate power without spending a lot of money. A modest rebuild even on a low compression engine will get you close to the 400HP/500lbs torque. A good cam, roller timing chain and a little clean up port job is about all you need. A little die grinder work on the intake helps too.

    If you want much more power the cost climb quick. Improved rockers are a must if you want to wind one much over 4500. All speed parts are pricey due to low volume sold. So if you want a high rever and big power the big Chevy may be better.

    I've got the little brother 425 in my 52 Chevy hooked to a built 200-4r and a 3.42 posi. Traction is non existent even from a rolling start. I've got a 500 but haven't bothered with it because the 425 is plenty for a cruiser.
     

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  20. undergroundss
    Joined: Jun 6, 2009
    Posts: 90

    undergroundss
    Member

    If the pattern on the box is chevy...check out this page:

    http://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page031.htm

    Sorry, just saw that Homespun posted this link already. Cadillac Motorsports Development is a good source of parts, and a good site for finding information specific to caddys. Be sure you check out the oil pump details.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
    CGkidd likes this.
  21. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,862

    CGkidd
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Old thread good info
     

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