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Customs brake line advice

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by worn shoes, Aug 15, 2015.

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  1. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 3,474

    Budget36
    Member

    Then you have to look at the time line to file, if the time line (per CA law) is when the work started, or is it the last time the repair attempt was made?

    IIRC, 2 years is max time to file here in Ca, for suing someone in an auto accident (which of course is from the date of the accident).

    Regardless, unless anything else done by the shop is ( or could be deemed) "bad" WS is just going to recoup the cost of the brake/line work, I know that small claims does not reimburse a person for the time they spend...but just to "make them whole".

    All that said, if WS was to follow up on a suit, in order to get more than what he payed for the brake fiasco, he'd have to get a Judge that would believe he really went through "pain and suffering"...and what it would be worth...obviously start at the $7500 limit, and hope for a good Judge.

    My senses tell me though, when it wasn't right two years ago, a Judge (most likely not a car guy) would think "WTF wait so long"?

    I'm thinking let the shop "do the right thing", and move on.

    I mean anyone who's read this thread (especially the many who have replied from the near by area), certainly won't be taking their car's there, so future business will be quelled for sure...and as WS as pointed out, it wasn't his intent to bring the shop into question...he was asking for advice to fix the issue, otherwise, he'd have said
    "XXXX-shop"...did me wrong...etc, etc...but he didn't.

    I say let the owner come in here, make amends, explain in detail his side, etc..and leave it up to WS and LW to get it taken care of.

    I'm sure LW's place has turned out good work, let's not try to bring a business down at this point, let's see a good response from LW and go from there.
     
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  2. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,548

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^X2
     
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  3. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,168

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The OP sounds like a pretty reasonable guy.

    Steve, if you are reading this, I'd say you should reach out to him, and see what it would take to make this right for him.

    I have had to swallow my pride and refund entire jobs to keep my customers happy. I am certain that this would not be required.

    The best judge of a man's character is not the mistakes that he makes, but how he recovers from them.

    Recover from them.
     
  4. my point was, it's too late. he is probably mulling this over thinking "do i want to be known as the bad mechanic with $500 or do i want to be known as the bad mechanic without $500".
    he had the opportunity to make it right and failed. why? who knows? i find it hard to believe he did not know better, maybe he has other problems weighing on his life. still no excuse. my post was also for him for the future but you m'f'd him on a forum before you negotiated the money. i think that ship sailed............ i could be wrong.
     
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  5. worn shoes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 310

    worn shoes
    Member

    It was never about recovering funds for me. Losing money ALWAYS SUCKS but the lesson was worth its weight in gold. He doesn't have to do anything for me. I'm happy with my fixed car and with new friends I can call on if I ever need advice again. Without his fubar, I never would've gotten the chance to mingle with you guys. I'm happy and whatever happens, happens.
     
  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,168

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you're happy, it's all good.

    At least you know that we're not just in it for the money!
     
    daddio211 and worn shoes like this.
  7. I did say there were DOT approved AN fittings and lines, and I stand by that. BUT AN does NOT mean aluminum, or any other material, so Please do not confuse the two as one and the same.
     
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  8. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,548

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You know, I'm thinking, maybe the increased use of AN fittings on hot rods is the result of another change: We all go to cruise ins, shows, and wander around the pits looking at cars. Well, we see that shiny stainless steel (SS) tubing and how nice it looks. So guess what goes on the next build? Then we find out after we bought it that it doesn't take at all well to attempts to double flare, and we have top go to single flare 37* AN fittings, and many AN fittings are in aluminum. I'm having these issues also, but just as seepage, as I said in an earlier post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
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  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,168

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you are having seepage, you should see your doctor!
     
  10. AN fittings are common in many auto applications....A/C, PS lines, Fuel, etc. but not brake lines. When I was researching all this stuff for my build I read somewhere no car has ever left Detroit with anything other than 45* double flare brake lines....That was good enough for me. And BTW, I like the shiney brake lines too, but NICOPP is the way to go for the best of both worlds...shiney, easy to bend, double 45 flares almost effortlessly with inexpensive flaring tools.
    Companies like Inline Tube buy millions of feet of special annealed stainless tubing every year that enables them to produce the stainless brake line kits with 45 double flares. That annealed tubing is not available to us rodders to my knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
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  11. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,996

    daddio211
    Member

    That's a good point, and one I hadn't considered or realized. I see all of the pretty anodized aluminum Russel fittings on the wall (collecting dust) at my local parts store. I know AN is Army-Navy and has very tight tolerances, but I just suspected they were ALL aluminum. Thanks for the education Don!
     
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  12. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 13,450

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    AN designation translates to Air Corps/Navy.
     
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  13. boutlaw
    Joined: Apr 30, 2010
    Posts: 1,218

    boutlaw
    Member

    Just to clarify, AN is a Mil Spec, along with MS, NAS, and others, and Russels, and Earls DO NOT have a Mil Spec, they build AN STYLE fittings and are NOT eligible for installation on a type certificated aircraft, because the parts were not manufactured in accordance with established industry or U.S. Government specification, including design, manufacturing, testing and acceptance criteria and uniform identification requirements. These fittings do not meet the standard and as a result could be misdrilled, improperly threaded, or even the aluminum, or steel, used in the manufacturing process may not meet the specificaton. AeroQuip and other manufacturers DO meet the MIL Spec and their fittings that do are identified with AN, NAS, MS, or whatever the appropriate marking requires.Our cars are not airplanes, but lets dont assume because a fitting LOOKS like an AN fitting that is IS an AN fitting and when used for brake lines, that could be problem. I was witness to an ejection seat failure in an A4 Skyhawk back in the mid 70's, and the reason for the fatality was an AN fitting for the ejection seat gas line was not drilled all the way through the 90 degree fitting. Mistakes happen even when the fitting does go through the required inspection process. Im sure each of the aforementioned manufacturers have an inspection program, but it probably does not meet the standard to obtain the AN, NAS, or MS manufacturing approval or I suspect they would have it. That lack of manufacturing approval is also reflected in the price of said fittings. Real AN hardware and fittings are pricey.
    OK, Im off my stump now, just thought a clarification was in order concerning AN hardware, as it appeared from reading some of the posts on this thread, that assumptions were made about ALL fittings identified as AN met the standard.
     
  14. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,996

    daddio211
    Member

    DDDenny and boutlaw, thanks for more education! I sure hope Steve takes the time to read this and learns something too.
     
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  15. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 3,129

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I think the point is not that he did a poor job but that he did not do what he was contracted to do. I see it as a breach of contract issue with perhaps fraud or criminal negligence as a follow up when he tried his voodoo cure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2015
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  16. Diavolo
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 810

    Diavolo
    Member

    Oh man, what a story!

    I don't have anything to add but if I was a shop owner and saw that booger welded tab on a piece of tubing and AN fittings on what is basically a stock brake job I would have my foot in the butt of whoever did that work. Your work is spot on, the right parts and installed correctly.

    It looks like someone intentionally made something more complicated than it had to be, then did it wrong. I'd almost bet they started with the AN end on the rubber line, then just kept trying to make it work using crap on the shelf instead of just getting the right rubber line in the first place.
     
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  17. I deal with the real AN hardware at work and none of this stuff is cheap. We use it for pneumatic applications and oil cooled heat exchangers. The OTC automotive stuff sold to our trade is nowhere near the MS world quality.

    Like Tex mentioned above, all automotive brake fittings are 45* for obvious part compatibility and the resulting safety reasons. Any mating part should be the same seat angle.
     
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  18. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,166

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    Amen to that.
     
  19. worn shoes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 310

    worn shoes
    Member

    It just kept getting worse every time he touched it. He told me he'd get a new T and he shows up with a JB welded old one. He told me he got the new brass T then he said it was bad. He goes AN with the setup and comes over with PTFE paste and a cobbled together setup. That welded up tab only stopped it from moving side to side on the rear end. It was still able to move forward and back. I thought it was to be a solid mount like the brass T. I keep wanting to not be upset, but last night it was eating at me. I keep wanting to be positive but its hard! Such a waste of my time and my money. Yet i'm sure he wasn't thinking of me while he was in Hawaii. BTW Diavolo, that work was by the shop owner. He has no one to blame. Hope is leg is long enough to reach his own butt! haha
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
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  20. Mike51Merc
    Joined: Dec 5, 2008
    Posts: 3,830

    Mike51Merc
    Member

    In my opinion, this is what happens when a shop owner gets rid of the hired talent that built the business. He thinks that stuff was easy and he can do it himself. Wake up call!
     
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  21. worn shoes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 310

    worn shoes
    Member

    20150822_173520.jpg
    So I've been checking my work for the last few days. I guess you can say that my experience made me a bit paranoid. This pic is fresh and no leak or anything! I will take it out this Friday to my local cruise. Thanks again for allowing me to share my story and to pick your brains.
    Joel aka Worn Shoes
     
  22. very nice Joel. that is the way it is supposed to work.
     
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  23. daddio211
    Joined: Aug 26, 2008
    Posts: 5,996

    daddio211
    Member

    Hmmmm.... maybe Steve should hire YOU to do his repairs from now on.

    Great job brother. I'm really sorry that you had to go through all of this but admire and respect your attitude throughout this whole mess. I also wish I could have made/found the time to come help you out. You should move up here.
     
  24. worn shoes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 310

    worn shoes
    Member

    Thanks tb33anda3rd.

    Thanks Mr. Hibb. I appreciate the support you have given me! I've always wanted multiple wives :)
     
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  25. Good job,looks like it was done by a professional,well maybe not,you showed us a professionals work earlier that was substandard.

    So I guess the work looks like a guy being concerned with his safety. HRP

    [​IMG]
     
  26. noddaz
    Joined: Sep 9, 2014
    Posts: 12

    noddaz

    [​IMG]

    You might not be done yet... Is the rubber brake hose rubbing on that shock ? If so, something needs to be moved...
     
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  27. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,167

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Now that you mention it I don't like the look of that flex hose either. But, camera angles can be tricky sometimes.

    In any case the hose should have no sharp bends or kinks, it should go in a gentle curve. It should not rub or touch anything as the rear axle moves around, and should not be stretched tight even when the car is jacked up and the axle hanging down.

    This is not always easy to arrange but if you look at the way the factory does them you won't go far wrong.

    I agree you should forget the whole mess. Write off the expense to experience and don't let it happen again. It is too bad you got cheated but at this point you probably wouldn't get anything anyway. Certainly not enough to be worth the waste of time, money and aggravation.
     
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  28. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 2,356

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Just so you know , there's normally a length of hose on that vent nipple that is clamped to the frame w/a capped[not closed ] vent fitting... some of you guys who can pull up images , show pics of what I'm talking about...
    dave
     
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  29. worn shoes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 310

    worn shoes
    Member

    There is space between the line and shock. The light and shadow are giving it that false illusion. It has maybe about 2.5"/3" of clearance. Oh & FYI it might also have appeared closer because I had the lower shock mount disconnected in order to remove the tires to get the wheel cylinders. When I placed back the shock it had my stated clearance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
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  30. worn shoes
    Joined: Mar 16, 2007
    Posts: 310

    worn shoes
    Member

    Yeah I have no clue what he did with the stock vent bolt/nipple. The one that I had on before had a loose cap on top of it. This is what I got in return. My wife's falcon has a rubber hose to hers. Should I jack it back up and run a piece of hose?
     
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