Technical BOXING/REINFORCING RODS/ BUSHING PISTONS TO FIT RODS- ANYONE DONE THIS OR RUN THEM?

I remember in the MID 80'S that PAGAN and Bob MaKay did the LOW BUCK special . If I remember right the injected 354 hemi first ran BOXED stock rods. I have a Pet Engine Project that I have been working on for many years.( My nature is to use off the shelf /traded /used stuff and never sink a ton of money into a short block- I consider anything over a 650$ excessive. ( yes I've done some but it always bugged me.) I have a possible stock rod /off shelf piston combo that will work.

Here is the Question. Can I weld a pair of reinforcement ribs/ gussets around the pin end- may be kinda like a a H beam rod. . If I ream the pin end of the rod .063 ( .0315 per side so to speak)- I can use an off the shelf piston ( with a little bridgport work to the deck. ). And I am talking less than 200$ a set here for a decent piston that will live at or below 6k all day long- especially on an 1/4 mile track. I know this combo has been done with no reinforcement -( I would like do it with out buying 3 sets of stock rods to find the pin bores that are centered perfect. ( yes I am being cheap) Again other than cam the short block will be off the shelf stuff.
Rumor has it a certain B-Ville car is running this exact set up. But they went through many sets of rods before they found a full set where the pin hole was centered.
Next question- Would tig be the way to go/ the rod is a 5140 material from the factory if I remember right. I assume that should be done before the pin reaming etc so it could be checked ?
I know there are aftermarket rod / piston combos that could be ordered- Kinda defeats the point to me.
Ill take any and all input- your not going to hurt my feelings- let it rip. I am kinda hoping some of you guys that have done this /or run these will chime in.
Mitch

 

I had an Ed pink 331 hemi that we ran in my gas FED.Don's boxed rods. Delta crank, grant blower pistons, cragar intake, isky blower and drive, Isky 7000 T cam, Scott injector and crank driven pump. One nozzle , Cragar headers. 150 inch fuller chassis car.

 

Don't overthink it. LOL

 

Swapmeet "H-beam" or "Eagle" rods are less time consuming, & I don't need to worry about match-balancing or crystalizing in my welds every time I fire the motor...

 

drtrcV-8. I follow you - got two partial sets/ even a set of 6 Olivers- used- and good shape( man I wish ) - length is the issue. - Need 6.760 length.( a little longer wouldn't hurt - up to 7 inches could work. Need a 2.1 journal/ or a 2.0 - could turn the crank down. But yes I have been praying that a really long set of used would pop up. Even looked at the real offshore( cheap ) stuff that can be bought for say 300 or less - nothing so far.
Lippy - if that would stand there - I have no doubt that it would stand what I am doing - a long time.
I am thinking reinforcement ribs around the pin end - (going from .927 to .990).- there is enough material to do it but it is thin on one side if its not perfectly centered. It will take several sets to find that many with centered pin ends.
Keep the info coming - the more pro or con the better. Again I've been studying this set up for years- Gotta believe with this many sharp minds on sight eventually a a Tree will stick out in the Forrest.I just like betting the system for cheap.

 

bush the pin bores in the pistons?

 

If I had a Bridgeport mill for the piston deck work I'd be thinking about ways to bore the pin hole larger (not ream) and center the new larger hole on the rod eye, and referencing the qualified big end bore to create equal C-C "straight" rods.
There was some spec for minimum steel con rod eye thickness in the Jenkins book or maybe earlier Chevy power books.

0.927" sounds like small block Ford.

 

In the early late 50s n 1960s was still being done,had been around for a long time for small builders with out a lot of $. When the cost of custom bullet was passed many. < Now days the cost has dropped on bullet rods,too the point it under that of cost for welding an then making alinement n sizing right agian after boxing!
Yes,I boxed the rods in the very early 60s,for a Kent eng. 1200 in a 105E,run it hard,often saw 9000 rpm.
A few years of racing later,for a refresh,took the boxed rod set in to check an resize if needed to a speed shop"Custom Engine Sevr."on other side of town,I was told it was the best!< joke was on me!! It was not,the ass that ran it "Stan" only thought he knew all.
When I went back to pick up my boxed rod set an flywheel I asked to resurface, was told,Stan thought your rods an flywheel was bad junk an put them in the trash. I never got them back.
I left after a number of #@$%*&^ my thoughts.
The next week I found a small wearhouse, and I opened Competition Technology Speed Shop, ran that for many years,worked on race cars; oval an road race also hot rods n customs. A lot of biz was fixing Stan's screw-ups,I was still in biz after he closed down another 20 years, Retired in 2001.
By the 1970s,there were a number of Co. making custom rods for high rpm an high HP,boxing was old school stuff,but it did work. Sure it could be done poorly too.
Not really any need now days ,the aftermarket high tech rods are now cheep enough n better.*
Welding on a rod can add to strength ,but can also take away if done wrong.

 

Squirrel I actually thought about that- Could be the easiest for sure. Several engines have pin bushings etc - how would I secure/ lock the bushings-( sleeve/busing loctite won't stand the heat)- Is there a way to pin /lock them in that I haven't thought of.( I considered a machined bushing that has a ridge/step the would be pressed in from the inside to the outside of the piston- keeping it in place) . Press the pin in the rod as normal press fit pins go. The difference is .063 so divided by 2 that means the bushing needs to be .0315 thick correct?? . Once the pin was pressed in the rod - there would be no way possible for the bushing to come out.( at least not from the inside) The question then becomes what to make the bushing out of - My thinking is that steel would be the only way to go. Maybe put the bushings in interference fit /tighter tolerance so it would be very tight( in the piston) and not come out.( Now you did it squirrel I am really starting to like that idea) Hadn't thought about putting the bushings in from the inside- I could use a spare wrist pin as a guide - would have to be a aligned then .
If bronze bushings will stay in the pin end of many rods/ why wont that work? two bushings half the load?

Dan I have no formal training on our Bridgeport/ or the smaller siegams mill that we have. I am self taught on most of my endeavors - Or think of it this way- the machine is a lot more capable than the operator.I literally have only seat of my pants experience. When I made my blower manifold years ago- no one wanted to even try - I was at a point of no return . Luck counts. True enough I can get a few rods to practice on and see if I can figure it out - Honestly that would be the simplest if there was enough material to keep optimum strength .
I am self taught welder. Gas/Brazing/Stick /Mig/or Tig. Pretty good at all of them- Ok my torch welded aluminum still requires more clean up than it should.( spool gun doesn't count that's about speed) I remember when they were welding( tig ) ribs/gussets on early Hemi exhaust rockers. I was thinking that's a possibility - maybe a single rib centered ? I understand that this is not a place for hit or miss welding-
Dana - I fully understand if time was an issue /etc- I would pony up like I did for our Willys engine - tame by most peoples racing stuff - but the first time We have ever bought a complete aftermarket( new ) rotating assembly-
. There has to be a way - 650$ for pistons with no pins/ and the same amount for a set of rods is just out a reach for most. I've built really nice SBC/BBC engines for that amount. True we do almost all of our own work but you get the idea.

 

just curious, what pistons are they?

and how are you going to balance all of this?

 

366 BBC/ hyper./ the weight is less than the original stock.This is the same piston that was used in the B ville motor.( they actually cut .080 off the deck of the piston to zero deck it.)( I can buy them all day long for a set of 8 for less than 200$- that will give two spares) Balance in this engine isn't that critical as long as I can get them all the same ( ie piston/rod/etc).6500 RPM max- 1/8 and maybe 1/4 mile .The little end of the rod is the issue. And it still can be done( with the stock rod) - its just a little thin and trying to address that.
Take the stock pin bushings for SBC , Machine a step- Machine for a press fit. Put in from the inside. NAPA number 3049YA20- bushing set I think.( get two of them. If that would work thats CHEAP fix. There is no way the bushing could actually come out / and the press fit stock rod would promise that.
Dan I also need to study page /section 3/12 from my old Chevrolet Power Manual- but I think that is on a semi finished / end - but still might be the key- I am going to spend some time today/see if I can figure out how to use the mill centering the pin bore rather than reaming them.

 

Question becomes --- can you afford to do it over again a second time if it does not work?

 

You missed these on E-Bay. $75.

 

What do those fit? And yes I did miss those. What were they listed under. Many a person has walked away from this engine because of the cost of the rods/ or the pistons. I gotta believe there is a way. Its Kinda what we do isnt it? I dont mean put together something that we know is gonna fail/sketchy/ Just gotta be a cheaper way- Sweat/blood/ labor are free to me.

 

The ad said 392. Lippy

 

Don Apenfels (sp) welded plates on both sides of stock rods. Last set I saw were on a GMC 6 cyl 7” stock rods running 85% nitro which right at the limit for a GMC bottom end.

 

I could see doing something like this for an antique tractor with a low rpm engine and no parts available any longer, but there isn't any benefit to boxing a rod and adding weight to an engine that will turn 5500/6000 rpms. It can't all be done properly with a milling machine and the required bushings and other tools cost money too. You mentioned reaming, but a reamer for the specific size you need isn't cheap and isn't the best way . I admire your creativity and wanting to use discarded parts that you can bring back to life, but my recommendation is to forget boxing as it serves no real purpose. Either buy replacement rods or find something you can adapt without boxing.

 

I have the tooling or most of it /just no formal training in using a lot of it. In about 60 days I will formally retire. Will probably do some part time maybe. 33 1/4 years - figure I’ll do some things my way.
Maybe it’s time to to figure it out.
I am looking at everything I can other than spending a fortune. I am going to take some time and explore one other possibility. It could potentially omit all of it. But I am not sure that the deck will take what I am thinking.
I am open to any suggestions still. You are not going to hurt my feelings etc. /a realist outside view is a often the best view. Thanks and keep any ideas coming.

 

You can offset grind the crank journals to BBC size and get the crank nitrided. Buy some pistons and your there. Lippy