Projects Bought 40 Ford cpe w/Desoto hemi

Al, I,m really captivated with your build here, as are a lot of guys. Looking at your stats I see you are an oldtimer in this rodding hobby/lifestyle, as I am also. In 1956 I started out with a really good engineless 40 deluxe 2dr project from a buddy who needed college money. I bought a 53 Dodge 241 hemi, and tried to make it fit. It just didnt fit and I just thought it was an impossible job and finally sold it. Been kickin my self ever since. Back in those days there wasnt as much info,tools,and available rodding products as we have today. Just fixing up and driving old car is so cool and thats what its all about, and you are on the right track. The thing thats so neat about the Hemi,s is the visible shock of seeing an engine completely filling an engine bay, and on top of that its quite a performer too. I wished I had been stubborn enuff to finish mine.

 

Thanks to all for the kind words and encouragement. I've got the CE rear spgs mounted and mocked it up using old Maverick rearend and orig rear wheel. I used CE's lowering block. I think it will settle quite well when it is all together and we can put weight on the spgs, etc.

Also included a pic of the more or less finished firewall patch. Note that the stamped reveal does not extend as low on the patched side as the stock right side. I used 36 pkp firewall for patch that stopped short for the battery box that was on the firewall on the 36 pkp. Thought I'd mark this 40 so we can always recognize it in the future unless somebody replaces the whole firewall.

Floor patches are in but not sealed and fully bolted down.

Tired Al

 

Well, I just set it down on 4 wheels using the new rear suspension from CE. Still some minor work to be done on finishing frt spg mts but good enough for now. Got the CE kit yesterday for splitting the bones and mounting 5 spd trans AFTER I add a few holes for 5 spd mt location! I'm going to review how another fellow modified his bottom center mount to make the center of the bottom mount more easily removable. Opportunities! I'm so lucky. Hope the 5 spd install goes as well as the rear suspension. Nothing yet from Cornhuskers but it should be "on the truck". Tired but working Al

 

I'm sitting here in speechless awe! Did I say that out loud? Great job. Looks like a pile of fun. I've got a 276 Desoto Ellyphant that I've been thinking about stuffing in my 35 coupe. I refuse to cut the firewall, so assumed it impossible. You've got me inspired to start taking measurements. Thanks.

 

The 291 is in my 40 with no major revisions to the firewall and it still has a manual fan. Radiator isn't stock so might have played with location. I can take some measurements if you need them. Will the hemi fit within the hood sides on a 35? Might want to start there as it will likely be close.

BTW, got the call about history of the car and not much new news. The son of the man who owned the car for many years said his Dad bought it in 1972 with the hemi already installed. His Dad just kept in outside for many years and later found an inside location. Anybody in the Kennet Square(?)/Chester area of PA remember this thing? Did you know who put the engine in it? If it was already installed in 1972, the engine was only 17 years old at that time. Here we are 38 yrs later trying to get to go around the block more than once! Anybody got any further clues on history? Thanks, Al

 

Great progress! Keep them pics coming, looking good so far.

 

That's mighty kind of you to go to the trouble. I thought about asking that, but figured it might be to impolite to ask. Maybe just take a picture of the tape measure in the width behind the rad between the fenders and PM me, or post it if it will help someone else aswell.

You brought up my exact concern, the width of the engine bay in the front. Don't want to be modifying stock fenders. Sorry I got this thread a little off topic but, you know how inspirations go. Thanks for posting this car it is a choice ride. I think it is safe to say that machines like yours were the inspiration for the factory muscle in the 60s.

 

You thinking it might be considered a 1940 Ford "Cobra?" Maybe Torino w/big block?

I'll try to get some measurements tomorrow. BTW, I also have a 1940 Ford pkp that I put a 1936 Ford CAR frontend on... hmm... that truck has been on the road for about 6 months... maybe time to upgrade the engine to a hemi! That small block with about 2,500 miles on it might need to be replaced. Now you have got ME to thinking! All the best, Al

 

nyce!

 

One of the first 40 coupes I helped with was hemi powered in the early 60's. The beginning for a long love of 40 Fords. I bought my first one a couple years later and still have it today. In the last full build I installed an 8" Maverick rear end but did not work out using the CE sway bar kit. Ends would hit the inner tires. Changed that out for the Granada 8" and that worked out well. How did the CE spring kit work for you? Most I have seen in 40's usually sit too high for me. I usually use the 48-54 Chevy pickup front springs and hangers for mine. In three of mine now. Yours is looking good and keep the pictures coming.

 

Here's my engine bay right next to yours.






Looks possible. Beautiful truck btw.

 

WOW!! THANK YOU, AL

Somehow I missed this thread with all the moving and no computer.

That's exactly what I have gathered up to build (another retirement project) Mine's a Deluxe and the motor is a 330, but close enough! So it really can be done!

Keep up the great posts and photos. I'll be on this thread like "white on rice"

 

Here are some measurements just taken:

It is 29.5 inches from the back of the radiator to the firewall on the passenger; measuring from the lower vertical portion of the fwall. It COULD be 30" if radiator was mounted slightly differently.

It is 30.5 inches from front of fan blade to the lower vertical portion of the center of the firewall and not in a stamped indention.

The engine is 26.75 inches at its widest point at the front outer corners of the valve covers. Those outer points are 9.5 inches above the top of the chassis. Those points are 19.375 inches from the firewall on the passenger side and 20.5 inches on the driver's side.

Get your rulers and start checking it out.

From measuring my truck and looking at the chassis, it looks like the hemi valve covers will possibly meet the inner fender and top edge of fender on a 1936; which would be a bit difficult to widen on a 36 but we all know anything CAN be done. Whether you want to or not is the question. If you had a setback firewall like I had in a couple of my past 3W 36 cpes, it might be more easily accomplished. Probably will need to set firewall back in a 35/36 car to get enough length in the engine bay to accomodate the hemi. I hope this helps. Al

 

As I thought about it, I realized I now have CE rear suspensions in both 40 pkps, my 36 conv sdn, and now the 40 cpe. I also have CE in my 39 chev cpe to make me a completely CE suspended guy! Not sure what that means! I usually use CE's lowering block kit with my installations as it lowers the car and allows easier adjustment fore and aft in centering the wheel in the wheel opening. I have always used the CE kit because they work and the quality and fit is very good and consistent.

As far rear sway bars, they are tricky to install but did work on the one I did install. I bought one for this car but am not worried about that now. I'll see how it rides first. The Maveick rearend is about an inch narrower than the Granada in the one's I've measured. That slight difference probably contributed to your clearance issues with the tires. GLAD to hear you got it worked out with the change to a Granada rear. The tin back one I'm using at present will likely be replaced later but its what I've got ready now so its what I used. I've got a 57 SW 9inch in inventory that I might use after I get it back together... one day!

Hope this helps. Al

 

Thanks very much for the measurements. Very much appreciated. Supposed to get snow tomorrow, so I can get into the shop and measure that up. Will be the first time I've been able to play for a while.

 

I'm looking forward to your assessment of the situation. Anything CAN be done but not everything should be done. Let me know if need further measurements. Al

 

Measured up using your measurements today. It is very close. If I can drop the motor a bit the valve covers will tuck under the edge of the fenderwells. There is a wider area under there. The motor would probably have to go in before the fenders and rad go on. Any clearance under yours to maybe drop an inch? My guess is the clearance to steering column and front pulley are the closest items to hitting anything. Anything else underneath I'm not considering?

 

It looks like there is an inch or so between the cross steering arm and the bottom of the hemi oil pan. I didn't look at the pulley vs frame clearance. I think the engine might be slightly offset to the passenger side as it appears the starter is against the steering box.. or mighty dang close. I'll do some more checking and maybe get a few pics but it may take a day or three.
For my car, it looks like lowering the front much by pulling a leaf or two may well lead to interference with the oil pan. Mustang 2? I've got to analyze that who situation but right now, I'm focused on the switch to a 5 spd. I got the stuff from Cornhuskers today. I'm mostly tied up until at least Sat but I'll post an update if I get anything done... more likely, I'll have some questions.
Keep working, Al

 

A 5 spd DOES fit without splitting the wishbone! It is close but I think I can complete the changeover from a 39 Ford trans to a S10 5 spd via regular kit for adapting a 5 spd to a flathead. Keep in mind that the front of the engine is sitting on about 40 yr old flathead engine mounts. I should gain a little clearance by raising the front of the engine just a little and then the trans should gain enough clearance to miss the wishbone. Note that I have not moved the stock mount for the wishbone ball. The adapter is bolted up flush to the hemi adapter. I'll have to do some work to shore up the revamped x member but I think I can make it happen. More details are given on another of my threads titled "Putting a T-5 in a 40 Ford..." if you want to look.

 

The good news is I trimmed out the area for the trans mount and used a 1/4" plate to relocate the trans mounting point 1 3/4" to the rear where it will be secured within the center of the x member. The bad news is I may need two more 1/4" spacers to place under the turbo 350 trans mt I'm using. Won't be able to dial in final rear trans mounting height until after I've installed new flathead style motor mounts at the front of the engine. Then we can dial in the height of the rear trans mount. I used the turbo 350 trans mt as it has two bolts on the bottom versus the 1 on s10 mt.
I ordered the pilot bearing, PCV kit, spin on oil filter adaptor, and fuel pump adaptor from hemi hot heads today. I might have all the parts I need one day!
Still working Al

 

Great work! Thanks for the post

 

Wow Al, this is turning out to be one great build thread. Keep up the good work!

 

You are on a roll Al - looking really good. As for the Maverick rear and the CE rear swaybar, I've got this setup in my 40 coupe but my rim setup probably has more positive offset because it works - it just barely misses the tire by about 1/2" on both sides. I'm using Chrysler 15x8" rims with a 1" spacer - I don't know the offset. Been in about 8 months - good so far!

 

Just curious...do you have a total length from the the face of the block to the end of the tail shaft?

.

 

It is a bit tricky trying to measure what you ask with it in the car but I put the end of my tape against the back of the stock oil filter mount and measured to the end of the output shaft on the 5 spd. It was 33 inches by my old eyeballs. Hope this helps.
Got the pilot bearing and other goodies yesterday so guess I'll keep working to see how it all fits. I managed to replace the front motor mounts yesterday which moved things a little. Still concerned that my offset trans mount is going to flex and lay over to let the trans settle back onto the wishbone. Opportunities!

 

Well, the new motor mounts raised the engine enough to get the pan OFF the u bolts securing the front axle. Also, when I centered the trans in the x member, it moved the engine just enough to get the starter OFF the steering box. Both areas will have to be watched in the future to make sure adequate clearance is maintained.
In other news, I managed to convert the hemi to a spin on filter that locates the filter parallel to the pan and a short filter ensured good clearance from the stock exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe. The supposed "sure fit" 30 degree adapter from hot hemi guys did NOT fit! I got them to send me the other two options. It only cost me about $25 extra for me to find which of their adaptors would actually fit! They said the one I used wouldn't work when I first called them. I thought they knew. Live and pay and learn.
On a better note, I got my jim dandy heavy metal fabricator to make me three 1/4" spacers out of 2" flatbar to be used to raise the rear of the trans enough to keep it off the wishbone. Now all I have to do is find time to finish mocking up the whole works and finalizing just how all of it will work and still provide reasonable clearances.
More later when I have more news.
PS to the guy with 35 coupe: lowering your engine an inch to fit under top edge of fender looks unlikely if you keep orig style frontend as my pan touched u bolts that secure the front axle before I installed the new motor mounts.

 

Nice to see the trim has been saved all these years.

 

sweet project

 

Was this car at the NSRA Nats in York last summer with a green fender and door? If so, I've been daydreaming about it ever since I saw it.

Same car or not, it's hard to get any more "hot rod" than a '40 coupe with an early hemi in it. Very cool car. Good luck with the build.

 

It IS the same car. I think alot of us liked that car. The fact that it would RUN really got alot of attention. It needs alot of work but it's just too much the dream discovery to quit. I'll keep you posted. YOU buy the next one! Al